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Demanding Free Stuff
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6061		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Power Crunch [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Demanding Free Stuff
Ok, a pet peeve of mine lately has been people talking about not wanting to demand free stuff from TBC.

People... they are an entertainment site... you can demand whatever you want from them. Just because they make it free (and technically it's not because they're counting on you all to buy that dvd which I know most of you will be buying anyway) doesn't mean you can't complain, demand or discuss.

This forum is a place where you can do just that... right? Don't feel bad demanding more from TBC. They are not your best friend down the street who you don't want to pressure into making more funny toons... they are doing this as their LIVING. Therefore they will keep making them and they are not going to stop because you bugged them or demanded something.

Demanding is part of what a fan should do... if the creator's ever hear of what your demanding, perhaps they'll listen. Demanding is a harsh word, it's probably more fitting to say "request." But anyway. You get the idea.

So please... please... please... stop saying "I don't like demanding free stuff" or "I won't complain because TBC make this a free website."

... bah.
Author:  Lunar Jesty [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't think the people that say that actually mean it in a literal sence. Rather, they are saying "TBC works by themselves." TBC have a million flying ideas, and your submission for a new answering machine... is probably already in their heads! Requests are not bad. A user here requested a kind of T-SHirt and TBC took it as a vote. But when you whine, WITHOUT EVEN EMAILING TBC, "why are there nooooo answeing machines! i cant send in an emale withowt support hep me!" you don't have the right to demand anything. It's all in the way.
Author:  The Noid [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another way I see this is that, well, what IF they charged us to view the site? WE'D have the right to demand everything! However, as long as we can view the entertainment FOR FREE, I'm okay with saying "Let's demand more things for free!" and all that stuff, cause it's just a joke.
Author:  Power Crunch [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Points taken. However, I also do not approve of bugging TBC about anything. Don't email them over and over about anything... I never request anything from them by email (minus SBEmails entries)... I'm just saying that on this forum it's fine to say whatever you like.

And TBC are not going to start charging for H*R. They said they would just quit before they would do that... hence why they had the H*R pay plus thing as a joke.

So I wouldn't worry about what IF they charged us. Because they won't.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine., because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnatb this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.
Author:  Sui [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine., because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnatb this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.


Heck, your friend isn't even under any obligation to give you a cookie in the first place.

TBC have been awesome enough already; they've given us more than our money's worth. XD
Author:  ramrod [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:26 am ]
Post subject: 
The way I see it, we, the fans, have the right to talk about H*R, wether good or bad. We have opinions that we're entitled to. We have the right to say that we think TBC should make more of this and less of that. But demanding is entirely different. TBC doesn't have to listen to us if they didn't want to. For all they care, they could kill off Strong Bad and replace him with the Toast Wizard. [size=0](Though the Toast Wizard would make a pretty sweet cameo)[/size]
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:39 am ]
Post subject: 
I Saw Three Suis wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine., because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnatb this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.


Heck, your friend isn't even under any obligation to give you a cookie in the first place.


Exactly.
Author:  Parlod [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I Saw Three Suis wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine., because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnatb this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.


Heck, your friend isn't even under any obligation to give you a cookie in the first place.


Exactly.


I agree as well. If someone is giving you something for free, you don't go demanding something better or different. I know if someone did that to me repeatedly, I'd be like "forget you..."
Author:  porplemontage [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:07 am ]
Post subject: 
The Groid wrote:
Another way I see this is that, well, what IF they charged us to view the site? WE'D have the right to demand everything! However, as long as we can view the entertainment FOR FREE, I'm okay with saying "Let's demand more things for free!" and all that stuff, cause it's just a joke.

Well, you still have right to complain. Just because something's free doesn't mean it's waived from all legitimate criticism.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's only wrong when people actually get mad at TBC for stuff.
Author:  Dark Grapefruit [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:21 am ]
Post subject: 
[s]Matt Wilson[/s] porplemontage wrote:
Well, you still have right to complain. Just because something's free doesn't mean it's waived from all legitimate criticism.


I came in here to post this. However, there is a difference between legitimate criticism and "make me a new email now!" That's not a criticism, that's just a demand.
Author:  Acekirby [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I Saw Three Suis wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine, because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnat this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.

Heck, your friend isn't even under any obligation to give you a cookie in the first place.

Wow, just wow. That was a great point. This is pretty much my view on this subject.

Yes, I think complaining is an okay thing to do. Saying "Why haven't they made Stinkoman Level 10 yet?" is a legitimate criticism. Saying "Hey, make Stinkoman Level 10 or I'll gnaw your face off," is not. There's a difference between criticising something and demanding something.
Author:  porplemontage [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Dark Grapefruit wrote:
However, there is a difference between legitimate criticism and "make me a new email now!" That's not a criticism, that's just a demand.

And what's wrong with a demand? People can demand things from TBC if they want, it's not like anybody has to listen. If TBC got an email from more than one person saying "Hey, make a new Marzipan's Answering Machine!" there's a chance that they'll listen. Just as good a chance if it was a request, probably. There's really nothing wrong with demanding things that you get for free, because as far as I see it you have every right to.

And you're right, I did remember that quote after Matt said it. :p

And saying "Hey, make Stinkoman Level 10 or I'll gnaw your face off" is more of a threat than a demand. Saying "Make Stinkoman Level 10." seems fine to me.
Author:  It's dot com [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Ju Ju Master wrote:
That's like going to your friend saying, "I don't want this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake."


On the other hand, if your friend hadn't made any new cookies or cupcakes yet, and she said to you, "I'm going to make something for you; I can make cookies or cupcakes. Which would you like?" And you said, "Cupcakes, please," then I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as you're polite.

To put it back in real-world terms, before "Commandos in the Classroom" came out, I wrote an email to TBC telling them how much I like the Cheat Commandos, hoping that they would get the hint and make a Commandos toon. (This wasn't right before it came out or anything, so I don't think my email was the impetus for their choosing to make that particular update.) If enough people send in emails like that, and they realize that support for an idea is great enough, then I think TBC would be agreeable.

I mean, they're going to make toons anyway; we're just making our opinions known on which kind we'd like to see. As long as the request is made in a positive, uplifiting manner, then everything should be cool.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's dot com wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
That's like going to your friend saying, "I don't want this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake."


On the other hand, if your friend hadn't made any new cookies or cupcakes yet, and she said to you, "I'm going to make something for you; I can make cookies or cupcakes. Which would you like?" And you said, "Cupcakes, please," then I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as you're polite.

To put it back in real-world terms, before "Commandos in the Classroom" came out, I wrote an email to TBC telling them how much I like the Cheat Commandos, hoping that they would get the hint and make a Commandos toon. (This wasn't right before it came out or anything, so I don't think my email was the impetus for their choosing to make that particular update.) If enough people send in emails like that, and they realize that support for an idea is great enough, then I think TBC would be agreeable.

I mean, they're going to make toons anyway; we're just making our opinions known on which kind we'd like to see. As long as the request is made in a positive, uplifiting manner, then everything should be cool.


Actually, i don't even like cupcakes ;)

But seriously, I agree with you, as long as you don't do waht strongfan was going to do, whcih was write an email saying somethign along the lines of "The following people want a new answering machine" then stating the names, it's fine Just don't go writing any petitions or demand anything and it's all good.
Author:  kookykman [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ju Ju Master wrote:
I still think we shouldn't email them saying "We want a new answering machine., because it's their choice. That's like going to your freind saying, "I don't wnatb this cookie you gave me, I want a cupcake." They're doing this for free, we should let them do what they want to.

Great way to put it. Would you want a friend like that?
Author:  Power Crunch [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Some of you guys are missing the point with that cupcake stuff. Making a cupcake isn't the same principal. When you make something artistic, like toons... your sole purpose is to entertain. You want other people to like them. You like them, of course, and though you might not say so... you do want others to like them. That's the entertaining part.

Now, TBC have a website that is basically like an internet cartoon show. Sure, they can do what they want and will for the most part, but their utmost goal is to entertain their fans. Whether with new or old favorites.

You can demand or (better word for it) request those things if you want. They'd probably like to hear what people think about different things from time to time. And whether they really want to or not, they probably still get a lot of mail about it.

The point is, when you make something like cupcakes... and then offer your friend one... that's just out of the niceness of your heart. Your not doing it for any real reason other than having cupcakes to eat. When you make a website with webtoons and your goal is to sell t-shirts and dvds because this is your job... it's different. They are not doing it just out of the niceness of their hearts (although TBC are definitely fan friendly and awesome)... they're doing it to make money. Because, we all have to make it somehow and this is there way of doing it.

As a fan, you have the right to say SOMETHING about it if you feel like it. Afterall, most stuff on the internet is for free. Most every webtoon or short film you can watch w/o paying. They are just saving you from the advertisements that would otherwise be plauging the site paying for it.

So in short... I think it's not quite right to think of TBC as your friend with the cupcakes. Although I bet they'd offer you one if they made some. lol.
Author:  Encountering Gremlins [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't know if I've pointed this out before, but I was a Journalism major in college, and one of the first important things I learned is that once someone makes their work available to the public, it's fair game for criticism (well, to a certain non-slanderous extent - you know what I mean) and fan demands. H*R qualifies under these conditions in my book, since it's TBC's current source of income, and it's gotten enough exposure that it's past the point of being just a "hobby" for them.
Author:  It's dot com [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Power Crunch wrote:
Some of you guys are missing the point with that cupcake stuff.


But did you see that I dropped the cupcake analogy and used a real-world example? (I only continued the analogy to try and put it in the same terms as the earlier post.) What are your thoughts on my Cheat Commandos example?
Author:  Cleverdan [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:06 am ]
Post subject: 
My whole view on this is you shouldnt demand more stuff that they spend their free time doing, but emailing them with questions and suggestions is just fine.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Demanding something of an artist is crude. You cannot rush the creative process. Plus, I'm sure they get plenty of honest constructive criticism within sea of "you don't put strongbad emails out fast enough anymore..." crap emails.

And encountering gremlins is right! When you put anything out to the public forum, you will face harsh criticism and sometimes. I've had it... trust me.

When it comes right down to it, on top of having fun, they are using their talents to make us laugh (not just you, all of us). Just because there is one aspect you don't like quite as much doesn't mean that it completely takes away from its quality. In fact, a bunch of people might just love what they added. If you don't like the cartoon anymore, you don't have to watch it. It's their vision...It's their art!

The Homestar Runner site, and its content, is incredibly versatile and has things to make everyone laugh. They have done so well with the intricacies of the story that even if they add something you don't like, it won't take too much from the quality of the stuff you've come to enjoy.

As an artist, I like to hear RELEVANT suggestions and criticism (even negative... it's a reaction!!!) from people. But, hypothetically speaking, someone says "you suck," it's just utterly pointless. What pedestrian idea are you trying to prove by saying that? Plus, with the amount of email TBC gets, those kind of "you suck" emails probably just clutter their inbox or trashcan if they have it routed there.
Author:  strongfan [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
More marzi answering machines.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think your confused about what this topic is. It's discussing a pet pieve of Power Crunch's, not a place where you actually post what you want to see on H*R.com. Feel free to make a topic like that, though.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Santadan(Cleverdan) wrote:
My whole view on this is you shouldnt demand more stuff that they spend their free time doing...


They do this for a living, but you are right about your stance on how people demand. One of strongbad's emails, Sibbie, is probably an abstract of it. What I mean is where Strong Bad says, "You people and your demands... send trogdor to my house..etc.."
Author:  Cleverdan [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, youre right. But they obviously don't mind when they can make it funny. :p
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
It's just more material for them to draw from!
Author:  TrogdorTSL [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I tend to disagree with this post, becuase TBC arent doing this corporately, they say themselves that they dont check up on how many people go to their website and they never try to force people to buy things. In my first, oh say, 2 years of visiting the site, i didnt buy one thing. as i grew to be more and more of a fan, i started buying t-shirts, becuase they look awesome. the merch is never advertized on the site in toons or anything, and i consider it to be one of the freeest(sp?) websites out there. They dont even put adds on there! plus they are very prompt when responding to complaints about broken merch, becuase my friend got a faulty sweatshirt and they just sent him anohter one and had him send his back. so i think that we shouldnt be demanding things from them so much as making suggestion on how to improve.
Author:  Power Crunch [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
TrogdorTSL wrote:
I tend to disagree with this post, becuase TBC arent doing this corporately, they say themselves that they dont check up on how many people go to their website and they never try to force people to buy things. In my first, oh say, 2 years of visiting the site, i didnt buy one thing. as i grew to be more and more of a fan, i started buying t-shirts, becuase they look awesome. the merch is never advertized on the site in toons or anything, and i consider it to be one of the freeest(sp?) websites out there. They dont even put adds on there! plus they are very prompt when responding to complaints about broken merch, becuase my friend got a faulty sweatshirt and they just sent him anohter one and had him send his back. so i think that we shouldnt be demanding things from them so much as making suggestion on how to improve.


Did you actually read my post? Or just saw the word "demand." Because I said it was a bit too harsh and that "request".... OR SUGGEST... is what I meant. My point being is, even though they don't MAKE YOU buy it. They are counting on you to buy it and they know you will. That's the beauty of it. They do not have to advertise. They happen to have a great fan base. My point is, don't feel like that means you can't say something to them if you do not like something because it's as much for you as it is for them... each and every toon.
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