Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

The problem you seem to be forgetting, Zirnitra, is that they are lawbreakers. They do not pay taxes, and yet we are simply expected to support them as they break the law by being here to start with. My thought is this: if they want to be here that badly, they should enter this country through legal channels, apply for citizenship, learn our language, and pay taxes and Social Security just like the rest of us. If not, then they should be arrested, imprisoned, and deported. I can think of absolutely no reason - pragmatic or legal - why an illegal immigrant should be allowed special treatment to circumvent due process that legal immigrants must follow.

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If they are not citizens they should not be getting our support to begin with. They can have a job here, that's all I said. As far as them owning land, getting medicine, etc. they are screwed. If we cut off our feeding them there then they will either be forced to become citizens or be forced to leave. They can rent out a place, but even still it would be the landlord paying the taxes. I don't see how they could get a house anyway.

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But isn't giving someone a job an act of support?

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We don't give them a job, they earn it. If an employer just wants to hand out jobs willy nilly then that is their problem. And even then they will have money but no house, no benefits, etc.

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But they'd still be circumventing legal procedures. The whole point of even calling them illegal immigrants is that they're not supposed to be here at all; they slipped across our borders without our permission to start with, when they should have used standard immigration procedures if they wanted to come here. The same immigration procedures you and I would be expected to follow if we were to move, say, to Canada or Great Britain.

Again, while I concur that they should not be allowed welfare, free medical care, etc., the fact is they are getting these things anyway. Our country is basically rewarding people for breaking our laws, and in the process hurting not only legal citizens of this country, but also people who seek to become legal citizens by actually following due process (i.e, if our country fills up with illegals, we won't have any room left for legal immigrants).

It's very simple: if you want to immigrate to the US, then you should follow US law in doing so. If not, then you do not belong here.

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While we would like to think it is, it's not always that easy for them to come in legally. Keep in mind these people come from really messed up homes and not everything works out for them to go through our screening.

The fact that they are getting benefits, welfare, etc. is not the problem of the immigrants, but rather the problem of whoever is giving those to them.

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I find it hard to imagine that there could be any conditions in any country that would warrant someone to NOT openly declare their intent to become US citizens. Poverty? Yes, it's a problem. I fail to see why it would prevent someone from openly declaring their intent to become a US citizen. War? Well, that one might be an issue, depending on which country. But all the more reason for them to openly and legally adhere to the process; breaking the law would only make them look (and be) more suspicious. Yes, it's a complex world in which we live, but it doesn't change the fact that, if someone wants to benefit from living here, there's no good reason for them not to do it legally.

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Who's giving them benefits? If someone is willing to work, they should be payed. Simple as that. Do I support illegal aliens? Not at all. I don't want them to have their health care, welfare, and whatever "are" I forgot.

There's really nothing we can do about them. Squat. We can't just find them all and send them back, and we can't just build a giant wall stopping them. What's to stop them from digging a giant hole under that wall?

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Actually, yes there is. We can crack down on the illegals we do find.


Maybe not, but we can start prosecuting and deporting the ones we do find. We can also prosecute employers who knowingly hire illegal workers (every job I've had within the past 15 years has required a legal ID of some sort and a Social Security Number - these are for tax purposes, but if someone doesn't have them, that's a good indicator they are here illegally). Granted, that might not get all of them, but it would certainly make it less appealing for them to come here to start with.


Seemed to work for Soviet East Germany. Tougher border restrictions may not solve all the problems, but it might at least help in cutting them down.

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1) And how would we go about finding them? Just say "hey, lemme see your ID" to anyone we suspect may be illegal?

2) "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

3) The day we go to something so un-thought-out will be the day the US goes down the crapper. I mean come on, a wall? Who will be building this wall, hmm?

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As stated above, in order to apply for most jobs in the United States, for tax reasons, you have to present ID and a valid SSN. Anyone who does not have these shouldn't have a job. That would certainly cut down on the job issue. And if anyone does apply for a job without them, an employer would be required to notify proper authorities. Also, any illegal immigrants arrested for other crimes: serve their sentences and deportation at the end of their sentence. And if they turn up in hospitals (and let's face it, what hospital is going to risk a lawsuit for not treating a patient, even if they aren't a citizen?): as soon as they are in stable condition and are well enough for the trip, deportation. There are ways.


I remember that. Seems to me it is posted in a place where many LEGAL immigrants enter this country. I would also point out that the quote says nothing about whether such people should be allowed to stay if they refuse to become citizens and adhere to our national laws. My point, as before, if they want to be here, let them come legally. If they are tired and poor, and wish to share our wealth, let them do so as legal citizens. If they long to breathe free air, let them breathe that free air as citizens. If they wish to make this place their home, let them openly declare their intent to do so by becoming citizens.


If you'll reread my post, my response was generally about stricter border regulations and enforcement, which I do believe is well within our capabilities.

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1) The thing is the employers don't. Because they get cheap labor and they are willing to take the risk. Hence why I suggest them being forced to pay an illegal immigrant the same as a citizen. Not only would they then have no incentive to hire an illegal over a citizen, but they would also have more reason to report them.

2) Like I said, it's not all as easy as it seems. Something tells me you have never been to Mexico. It's really not as easy as you, as well as others want to believe it is to become a citizen. Actually, I'm willing to bet many US citizens couldn't even pass a citizenship test. Whether this is due to ignorance about the country's history or due to the difficulty of the test, it's really not a walk in the park becoming a citizen. And when you have a family to provide for and you are cleaning gutters for $2 an hour all they want is something to get by with. What if they don't want to become a citizen? What if they just want to work here because they can't get a job where they live or people are willing to pay even less there?

3) So we are going to constantly patrol the US/Mexican border full-through as long as possible. Let's not forget Canada too, we have to be fair here. That's a good use of tax dollars isn't it?

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And if we're not going to enforce requirements for ID and SSN, how do you expect to enforce equal wage standards?


I have been to Mexico twice.


It is no less difficult for those who do actually go through the process and become citizens. And yet some people do just that. Why should we make things easier for those who don't want to go through the process at all, when there are people who do want to immigrate legally? At best, this could be presented as an argument for less stringent citizenship requirements, but not as a valid argument for lax enforcement of illegal immigration.


Then they shouldn't come here. If they're not going to commit themselves to being contributing members of our society, which means obeying our laws and becoming citizens, then all they're doing is taking advantage of the benefits. There are plenty enough people from countries that are in just as bad a shape as Mexico who actually want to be productive citizens. My thought is, if things are so bad where they come from, then why shouldn't they pledge themselves to become citizens of our country, and do so proudly?


Sounds to me like, since they would be benefiting so much from our system, that they ought to be willing to become contributing members of this system, by becoming citizens. In essence, what they want is the benefits with none of the obligations that the rest of us have to fulfill.

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That might be a valid concern, however, relieving penalties for illegal immigrants is not the answer. Saying "they break the law because the law is too hard" is the same thing as saying "you shouldn't give me a speeding ticket because it's too hard for me to drive the speed limit".

Amnesty is not the answer to this problem. If it's too hard to be a citizen, then that needs to be addressed. Otherwise, you're treating the symptom but not the problem.

Honestly, though, I don't think it has anything to do with the system being "too hard". It's more about wanting to get the benefits of this country without fulfilling their responsibilities (taxes, etc.).

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I haven't seen a thread about this yet in looking back through the first 6 pages, so I'm assuming one hasn't been made.

What do you think about immigration, especially that of the illegal variety?

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I think that, overall, it has a net benefit. Illegal immigrants do jobs that people who aren't so desperate for money won't. Apples rotted on the trees in Washington this year because there weren't enough people to pick them. I do believe there should be paths to citizenship for the illegal immigrants: ones that involve them becoming successful, useful members of American society.

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That's tedious, searching is much faster

That being said, merged.

They already are: THEY DO THE JOBS NO ONE WANTS!

I mean, when was the last time you saw an Illegal Immigrant working as a teacher or a Foreman?

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You haven't. But I could care less about all that.

There are no benefits from having illegal immigrants. They do 2 things: Break the law by walking out onto U.S soil, and cause reverse discrimination.

The reverse discrimination I can't stress enough. People give and give to them, and white Americans get the boot from certain things.

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They also take advantage of tax-funded programs without contributing towards them, which is my biggest beef with it. Say anything you want, they're freeloading.

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Living in your parents house all of your life is freeloading. Welfare is freeloading. Working for a living is not.

The best thing to do would be to invite illegals allready in the US to come forward for citizenship. They get citizenship, they pay a fine, now they're documented workers and the world keeps spinning.

Besides, do you pay your taxes?

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I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. They're not working for a living. They have everything given to them via government, which last time I checked was freeloading. And saying that welfare is freeloading and that's not what illegal immigrants is doing was ironic, because quite a high percentage of illegal immigrants are on welfare.

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ah, illegal immigrants. yet another product of over-complication.

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Just the way the world works.

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You have to be a US citizen to get welfare. You can't just walk into a welfare office and say "Give me free money" and expect it to happen.

Second, no, they don't have everything given to them by the government. Has the government given them a job? No. A Home? No. A Car? No. Food Stamps? No. They go out and look for anyone who will give them a job and they'll do it for less than a professional. When you go and drive past a Home Depot or a Lows early in the morning, liek around 10 or 11 AM, do you not see a bunch of Mexicans hanging around the side of it? Of course you see it, I see it all the time, and I'm pretty sure its becoming more common. If your claims are ture, then where is their government help? IF they were getting help from the government, do you really think they would be outside of Home Depot waiting for someone in a truck to drive by and tell three of them to get in the back? Nope. They'd be working at McDonalds making minimum wage while living in a studio apartment.

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Yes they do. They give them everything.

Besides, do they deserve a job? No. A home? No. A car? No. Food Stamps? Absolutely not. They don't deserve anything from this country because they're not legal citizens.

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Parental care of their children is not only necessary for the survival of their children, but it is illegal NOT to do so. Anyway, I do not live at home, I am away at college, getting an education to support myself and eventual, a family with children of my own to care for, in my own home.

Welfare, that's a touchy subject that is sometimes freeloading, sometimes not. It's casework like all of life.

Working for a living is obviously not freeloading, but one has to do it through legit methods. You're screwing everyone else over when you give yourself special treatment.


That's what they're trying to figure out. The "best thing" isn't black and white cut and dry. Many illegals do need deporting, many need citizenship. Casework, casework, casework.


Yes, actually. I do. And so do you, every time you buy something. Sales tax isn't for the store. But I also pay taxes to the IRS like I'm supposed to. What, do you not?

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I just got a check back from the IRS for $21.00. If I pay taxes, I never feel it.


Really? Show me some evidence.


Yeah, but the country isn't the one giving them the jobs, the foremans and plantation owners are.

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Aight, cool. Just checking/had the feds on speed dial

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Easy. The government gives them money. And reverse discrimination carries lots of evidence of its own.

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