Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

The sad thing is that many of these people simply are too stubborn to listen to reason and stop promoting hatred, and that even when offered rock-hard evidence that what they do is wrong, they fail to understand. His death ends this. I wouldn't want to go to his funeral and clap and smile and say "Hey, everyone, isn't this great?" or even just openly celebrate his death, but however wrong it may be, it makes me glad to think that there is one less advocate of hate in the world.

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Oh, don't get me wrong. The man certainly needed to learn a few things about being wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove. And I certainly didn't agree with him on a lot of things he said and did in his life. I just don't think it would help turning this into a "BURN IN HELL, YA HOMOPHOBE!" thread.

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Seeing that made me wonder whatever happened to the whole "judge not lest ye be judged" thing?

Falwell was a pain in the butt, but he wasn't an evil man (compared to someone like, say, Saddam Hussein, Timothy McVeigh, or even Fred Phelps). While I may not agree with everything he said, I do appreciate the fact that he stood up for what he believed and made no apologies for it.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I think regardless of the coincidental moral teaching from a religion, it STILL seems like good secular moral advice to simply be the bigger man and not allow one's self to fall into a state of utter contempt for someone, even if they themselves were guilty of showing such contempt. Once you start seeking an eye for an eye, it DOES bring you down to the level of loatheliness that the one you've condemned has already (at least by perception) reached from his/her own actions. Once again, my battle cry seems to apply here: Alas, how quickly the judged become the judgers.

As I said at the beginning of this thread, there IS a part of me that wants to celebrate his death...but ultimately, I know that would be wrong. I think what we should celebrate is not the fact that the person died, but that the actions and speech he produced--ones that initiated bigotry, prejudice, and hate in many others--have finally passed. It would have been far nicer, though, had he chosen to simply rescind all that while he was still alive instead of taking it to the grave.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Somehow, I doubt God exactly approves of his actions either...

As for homosexuality, I...really fail to see WHY God would have a problem with it. Yes, I know, Leviticus, all that stuff, but it honestly makes no sense WHATSOEVER. None.

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Because it is not the way God created us to be. Think about it: male and female anatomy were designed to work together. God gave mankind the gift of sexuality, and mankind abused it.

But here, I must also remind you that it is not necessary to understand his reasons for his disapproval. He has said he disapproves; the question for you is whether you trust him when he says so. And not just in Leviticus.

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He followed the 10 commandments. But you have a good point, I really don't know what God wants besides that.

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(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

This assumes that the Christian definition of God is correct.



Many animals other than humans commit homosexual and bisexual acts. Is that all the doing of mankind, too?

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

I think it would take a Rosalie-esque person to do that. Seems like we're keeping this an intelligent discussion about the guy and his life/death.


And furthermore, just because two things are designed to work together doesn't mean they HAVE to. I don't see how homosexual/bisexual behavior is causing anyone any harm.

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You know, Didymus, they're not abusing it. It's not like they have a choice. And remember that the same sections condemning homosexuality condemned things such as wearing mixed-material clothing.

I also doubt God makes completely arbitrary decisions--he MUST have his reasons, and there are no truly legitimate reasons to condemn homosexuality. Just because they're not making babies doesn't mean they're an abomination.

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I love how pretty much every thread in R&P ends up as the same argument.

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ATTN: LOWER BOARD USERS HAVE MOVED TO ANOTHER FORUM. COME JOIN THE FUN!

Mandy, the whole thing about mixed material cloth is mentioned ONCE in all of Scripture, and that was part of a holiness code specific to the Hebrew people. Condemnation of homosexual behavior is a consistent theme throughout Scripture, in both the Old and New Testaments. And I'm not convinced that they don't have a choice to some degree. A person may always choose which desires they feel, but they certainly do choose which ones they act upon. As an unmarried heterosexual, I'm not at liberty to act on every impulse I feel either.

As I have pointed out here and elsewhere, God in the beginning created men and women to be together. I furthermore pointed out God, in his Word, does in fact commend male-female relationships and forbids same sex relationships. I can only therefore conclude that, regardless of popular social and political (and even in some cases religious) opinions, homosexuality is contrary to God's will.

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“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals, it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.” -- Jerry Falwell

Yes, there's some anger at Falwell, and some people are genuinely glad he's gone. Falwell devoted a great deal of time, effort, and money to opposing the LGBT community's ongoing pursuit of civil rights. This is why many people viewed him and continue to view him as destructive. He's a good example of what Richard Dawkins was talking about when he said that religion is dangerous "because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness."

Personally I don't doubt that the Bible condemns homosexuality. Given the history of the church it seems an inarguable point. The question is, should the Bible influence law? Even if every word of the Bible is literal truth, does God need us (sinners all, and one no better than any other) to enforce his will?

Mike

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Logical fallacies ahoy! I'd also like to say: graaaaagh!

Someone who is purely homosexual feels no attraction to the opposite sex, and, were they to suppress their desires, would never find romantic fulfillment. How would this person be able to enjoy their life?

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Myrrh, who ever said that romantic love is the only meaningful thing or the most important thing in life? To my knowledge, there have been plenty of people in history who were just as happy without it. Nevertheless, the issue still ends up being one of trust and obedience to God's will. If God says it's wrong, then who are we human beings to argue against him?

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I'm certainly not saying that love is the only or the most important thing in life, but it certainly IS important to most people. Most. And the majority of people would feel incredibly empty without it.

Now, as far as God's will, if there were even one reason that could be shown to explain why God condemns homosexuality, I would understand (though I still would not agree.) I suppose it could be argued that it doesn't result in children, but really, the Earth is suffering from overpopulation, and besides: as has been stated before, animals have been known to act that way too. So it can't be entirely against human instincts, either.

The argument that men and women were made for each other doesn't really make much sense to me. Sure, if you believe in the story of Adam and Eve, then it's true that God created women so that they could be with men. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong for men to be with men, or women to be with women. Not everything needs to stick to its original purpose- a fly can be swatted with a flyswatter, or with a magazine.

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But here's the problem, Myrrh: God is the Creator, and we are his creatures. He does have the right to condemn certain behaviors, if they are not what he created us for. And he is under no obligation to answer to us for his reasons to condemn those behaviors. I find your argument, "I don't understand why he would," to be simply sidestepping the issue, rather than addressing what he actually does say on the subject.

So really it comes down to this: are you willing to accept God's authority on this subject, or are you intent on following your own reasoning rather than the will of God? For my part, if your intent is to convince me that God does not in fact condemn homosexual behavior, then you've got a lot of exegetical work to do.

But as far as sexual desire goes, I can't help but remember the words of Jesus himself: "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life? Or what shall a man give in return for his life?" (Matthew 16:24-26). What does he mean by "deny himself" except this: that sometimes we have to set aside our own desires, our own pleasures, for the sake of following a higher purpose? Jesus himself did just that. Do you think he wanted to be crucified? No, he didn't. His prayer in Gethsemane shows us that. And yet, he set aside his own personal desires and followed the will of God, even though it meant torture and death. We are to do likewise. And somehow, I don't think that refraining from sexual behavior is nearly as torturous as being crucified would be.

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I believe we have a thread about homosexuality. I also believe this issue has been hashed and re-hashed about 700 times here.

Can we stick to the topic?

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^^
Above post is the first time that EVERYONE agrees with a Lahi post in R&P.

Thanks for saying something that was sorely needed, man.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

So.....When will they finish the dance floor over his grave?

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I think that's exactly the sort of post we've been trying to avoid...

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You've got the set-up a bit wrong. It'll be a perfect recreation of the main club the main characters from "Queer As Folk" often go to. Whoops...I mean...bad posts! Bad!

Seriously, though, I still stand by what I said before about it not being important that the man died so much as the hate he perpetuated is no longer spewing.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

<devil's advocate>Keep in mind, though, animals have also been known to practice necrophiliac behavior. No, I am not kidding.</devil's advocate>

Is the dance floor gonna have a snack bar?

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TOASTPAINT!

OK, so Falwell died. I don't appreciate what he did, but I do respect him as a fellow human being. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

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That's true. Just because animals do something, that doesn't make it okay for humans to do.

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That may be, but it does a lot to discredit the argument saying "it's not natural."

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Well the last time I checked humans are Animals. Or unless there is a new kingdom: Humania or something I haven't learned about.

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TIRES TIRES TIRES

You'd be surprised. I've run into people who stubbornly debate that humans should not be classified as animals, and that taxonomy is inherently wrong...because "we have souls and animals don't." Furthermore, in common usage, "animals" refers to "animals other than humans." Without realizing it most of the time, we make a reference that continues to distinguish our own species from the rest.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

But unlike most animals, humans aren't slaves to their instincts. We have the ability to think and reason that is quite far advanced than most animals. And so, in some ways we are like other animals, but in other ways, we're not.

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Seriously folks... Take it to another thread. This thread's about Falwell.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.