Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

And, Myrrh, I would suggest that you do some research before simply deciding where you stand. Pornography is a VERY exploitive business. And it does cause damage. At least Mike and to some degree, even Kef, are willing to acknowledge the dangers of it, whereas it seems to me your own viewpoint is rather limited. If you're going to make such a stand, please make an informed decision regarding it.

And Chekt is absolutely right. Someone sent me a very informative PDF file on the subject of human trafficking that I'd love to share. Does anyone have any ideas on how I might be able to do that?


Because it is a valid ministry concern, Cola. In fact, I've counseled with no less than four people with sex addiction problems. And that's just the ones who came to me, and not the ones I suspect have problems that they are not willing to address.

So there you are, Myrrh. I've seen the actual damage that sexual addictions do to people's lives. You're going to have a very tough time arguing with that.

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You people have to understand that Dids is a Christian minister and will obviously share a Christian point of view on anything. There's nothing you can do.

Not saying that's a bad thing, Dids is a great guy, anyway, Christians tend to be very nice and helpful people if they aren't pressing religion on you, which isn't very often.

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I thought he was Lutheran.

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*Nails Theses to Cola's Head*

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Pornography doesn't always cause sexual addiction. A massive number of people in the USA consume it, but how many of those truly are addicted to sex? Keep in mind that enjoying it occasionally doesn't mean you need it.

I am also completely opposed to any and all forms of sexual exploitation. I never said I supported pornography or prostitution in which the performers/prostitutes were unwilling. What I'm trying to communicate is that, when they ARE willing, there's nothing wrong with it.

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Lutherans are Christians, COLA.

I think Dids is a nice guy even when he is pushing his religion upon you. And I have to admit, the guy knows what he's talking about more than I do whenever we start talking about Christianity. It's clear that he has an intimate knowledge of the Word, though I must say that doesn't convince me of the Word's veracity itself. But that's a topic for another thread.

But it doesn't really matter if Didymus "always takes the Christian" perspective. In a debate, you must address the argument, not the person.

And speaking of the argument, I think it's time we start painting some toast.



It is, but it doesn't have to be. I dont think it's inherently exploitative... it's just that exploitative people are in control of a huge part of it.

Here's an example: let's suppose I draw a naughty picture, and I sell it to somebody. And, as far as I know, that somebody doesn't have any serious problems with addiction. Who's getting exploited then? I don't think anybody is.

- Kef

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Maybe. But when my dad's computer got hijacked by a porn site, who got exploited then? Who gets exploited when children are forced to pose nude or engage in illicit behavior? Who gets exploited when the porn addict ends up destroying his marriage? We're not dealing with a hypothetical world in which honest merchants are dealing honestly with healthy people. For the most part, they're little better than pushers. Only because of the First Amendment, they have laws they can hide behind to get away with it.

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Well, I never said I was happy with the way the industry is. I'm just saying that I have no problem with the idea of pornography in and of itself.

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Hoisted by your own Petard, Ian.

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I gotta agree with Kef on this, sort of.

While I really don't like pornography, it's not like every pornographer is preying on young girls, addicts, etc.

There ARE some that do, and there are porn addicts that destroy their lives, however, there are also alcoholics that do the same thing.
Just like the responsible adults that know how to control their drinking, there are those that control their pornography viewing.

I will say that, in general, the business does seem to be exploitative and should probably be more strictly regulated.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I find it almost impossible to look at porn given the statistics behind it. An amazing number of porn actors were abused, often sexually, as children. (This also holds true for strippers and prostitutes.) It's been said that without child abuse there would be no modern porn industry. This really bothers me, so my personal reaction to porn is a certain sadness for the performers. I always find myself wondering what happened to them to put them where they are now.

Regardless of my personal feelings, though, I do believe the industry has a right to exist. I am a serious supporter of the legality of consenting adult behavior and I think that blue laws and such have no place whatsoever in our society. As I said above, I think education is the answer, rather than repression. As for addiction, I think StrongRad has it pretty much dead on.

Mike

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Logical fallacies ahoy! I'd also like to say: graaaaagh!

Very true.

EDITED FOR CONTENT: I believe this is why I am not aroused my porn, I can't help but feel sympathy, pity, and shame for the poser/actor. And I wonder what on Earth happened to them that they had to start doing this. The very little CP that I have had the misfortune to stumble upon is the worse. I feel bad that these kids can never have a real childhood and are helpless to do anything about it.

You do know that a lot of people can't just walk out the door and "get some", right?

Not to say I couldn't "get some" (I kind of sort of have a girlfriend but I need to work at that more), but there are a lot of people that don't.

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Some people want to do it, though. And, as I pointed out, not all porn even involves real sex between real people; a writer or artist alone can produce pornography, and they're not being forced into it.

Yes, for some people -- probably a lot more than I'd like to think -- having a job like doing porn is a "last resort", but that doesn't mean that everybody in porn is doing it as a last resort.

- Kef

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I know that some start as as a choice, and that's fine. I was talking about how many of them, more than people realize are being forced into it, and have absolutly no choice. They are abused and held captive and pretty much used as sex slaves for porn.

I really don't think that particular passage refers to porn. They didn't have porn back then, because there was no Larry Flynt.

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Well, the porn actors are still getting paid for having sex, so it could be argued that it's a form of prostitution. Although that still doesn't apply to all of them... sometimes (rarely, but sometimes), consenting couples who would be having sex with each other anyway just do it in front of the camera.

- Kef

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You know, that's always bothered me.
If you pay someone for sex, it's illegal.
If you pay someone for sex, but videotape it, it's legal?

Apparently, the difference between pornography and prostitution is how many people watch.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I don't know why I haven't thought about that very much...

I guess one difference is that, until the internet explosion, porn was a fairly localized thing. Only a relatively small number of businesses produced porn, whereas prostitution has always taken place everywhere. Also, prostitution is often more visible, what with prostitutes standing on street corners. Sure, you can just buy porn at the video store, but at least people aren't actually making it there.

But I don't think it's worth trying to figure out any sort of logic. Legislators usually don't have any when they come up with these kinds of laws.

- Kef

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Actually, with prostitution, they could, but that raises a lot of questions.

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Eugh. Some people who have no qualms with prostitution in and of itself -- like me, for instance -- still wouldn't touch a prostitute themselves with a ten-foot p -- OK, that accidentally makes a crude pun, so I'm going to be a good little mod and say I would Just Say No. As the saying goes, "There's no telling where it's been."

- Kef

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I've no doubt the porn industry has faced that charge before, and found some technical grounds to deny it. As it is, the line between porn, prostitution and legally and socially accepted behavior is often a bit fuzzy.

For instance, some people won't sleep with (or marry) you unless you spend loads of money on them first. Some people will only date or marry the wealthy. The line between this behavior and prostitution is frankly a very thin one. It's been said that the only difference between prostitution and gold digging is honesty; prostitutes are truthful about what they do. This is one of society's many interesting double standards.

The line between pornography and legitimate cinema can also get tricky. Sex is simulated again and again in mainstream movies, often very convincingly. Now and then an actual sex act is filmed in a mainstream movie, and makes it to the big screen without incident. If you legislate against porn -- and many have tried -- you often wind up catching a variety of mainstream movies in your net. (Proponents of book banning have long encountered a similar problem; it's easy to counter a book ban by pointing out the adult content in the Bible, Shakespeare, classic Greek literature, Chaucer, etc.)

Mike

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Logical fallacies ahoy! I'd also like to say: graaaaagh!

Hmm, can you name any examples?

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A handful. It happens more often in Europe than here (surprise surprise). Sticking to American films, the most high profile example recently was Shortbus, which showed several unsimulated sex scenes. The Real Cancun contained a few distant shots of actual couples having intercourse. The 2001 film Intimacy featured an actual act of fellatio. Cruising, a 1980 Al Pacino vehicle, had a good bit of unsimulated gay sex footage and still managed an R rating. There are many others, mostly independent films and, as mentioned above, European productions.

Mike

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Logical fallacies ahoy! I'd also like to say: graaaaagh!

Depends if you are asking Dante or not.

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RIP Nathan "Buz" Buzdor

My post originally had a reference to prostitution but I decided to take it out for some reason.

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Honestly, after getting a girlfriend, pr0nz seem kind of disgusting.

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Whats up with this weird Sailor Moon crap they got going these days?

The Japanese have so much good stuff, but so much baaaaaaaaaad stuff.

Get it? Bad's a Michael Jackson song?

That weird sailor moon crap has been on the internet ever since the internet started.

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