Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

For those of you who haven't heard, Pastor Ted Haggard temporarily stepped down from his post as pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs and as head of the National Association of Evangelicals after Mike Jones, a gay man, claimed to have had a 3-year relationship with him and sold him $200 worth of crystal meth.

Today it got worse. New Life dismissed and removed Pastor Haggard after supposedly proving "without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct."

I'd like to see this "proof". Pastor Haggard admitted to buying the meth but denied being involved in any immoral conduct with Jones, so I want to see what New Life's investigation turned up.

If it's true, I'll be shocked. Yes, Pastor Haggard is human just like the rest of us, but clergymen are held to higher standards, aren't they? I'm not going to condemn him, but I would still expect better from a pastor of a 14,000-member church.

Your thoughts?

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I love it! A pastor who is one of the chief supporters of the Gay Marriage Ban is found to have had a sexual relationship with a gay prostitute. Oh the irony! Oh the hypocrisy! The only way this would be better is if it was Fred Phelps instead.

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Keep in mind that just because a pastor has been hypocritical doesn't mean that all Christians are. I'd like to get that out.

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Well, this isn't the first time that a holy man (Priest, pastor, bishop, ect.) has commited an "immoral act". Does anyone remember the whole Catholic Church sex scandal?


And Ian, they probably won't release the evidence to the public, just so they can try to save face.

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See.. thsi is one of the things i dont like with teh church.
Sure, you can consume hundreds of lines of meth and coke and get away with it, But when you have gay sex its all "NOOOO, You cant be a pastor, Think of the children!"
I mena, in all seriousness, Whats worse: gay sex, or doing huge lines of meth?

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Then I won't believe that they've "proven" that Haggard was involved sexually with Jones.

Besides, this is America. One is innocent until proven guilty.

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not in the church, you get accused of gaying it up and your out forever.

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The joy expressed in this thread by some is disgusting.

Compares to the ecstasy Democrats go through every time something bad happens in Iraq.

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hey, im not saying im happy, Im just stating the truth smeared heavily by my opinions.

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YAY HAPPY FUNTIME SEXUALLY IMMORAL CONDUCT!

Sorry if it disgusts you if I get any sort of pleasure out of this news. But when one of those people who works so avidly to tell the world that you are less of a human being just because of something that makes you different, and is responsible for condoning acts, even if indirectly, that would put both your dignity and your physical and psychological health at risk...then it just seems good to me that there's one less gay basher in the country with followers. He might not have beat to death any gays himself, but that same sort of bigotry that he preaches is what spawns acts of hate and prejudice in the first place.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

i'll chime in. i don't give a crap about him having gay sex. lots of people do. so it goes. prostitution is illegal, however, so if that's proven that sucks for him. i do think it's pretty funny that some guy who supported the gay marriage ban may in fact be gay himself.

im much more worried about the meth. i think it's pretty lame if anyone is going to try to guide people in their actions if they're doing methamphetamines, because those can really ruin your life. meth is reaaaaally addicting, plus outright illegal.

oh and as far as the church releasing any evidence, don't bet on it. not only to save face, but since they're a private organization, they don't need any sort of transparent procedure to fire someone, just like a big company wouldn't have to release details of a corruption crackdown or some such.

I'm sorry I can't help but feel some joy when a religious nutjob gets caught with his pants down.

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Lahi, is there ever a time where you don't try to bash the Dems? This had nothing to do with them, so leave them out, ok? This isn't political, this is religious.

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Hence, a judicial trial by jury.
That is not the job of a pastor. We are all God's creation, therefore we are equal as humans.

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i really don't want to be one of those people, Ian, but that bible passage doesn't simply say a judicial trial by jury. that is your interpretation of it, and it can be interpreted otherwise. in fact, a lot of stuff that we picture in a trial is unmentioned there, and that's okay. I'm just saying that if it doesn't become a criminal case, it's not like the church is obligated to set up a trial like we all think of and get lawyers and all that.

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So, does any of this really matter, at all? Seriously, it sounds like something that will have no major effects and will be forgotten in a few weeks.

Well, to some people, it says a lot about evangelical Christians.

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Meh, it's nothing new. Scandal in the church, any church, has been going on as long as it's existed. No group of people can be devoid of any thing like that for too long.

Well, for me, neither issues cause joy, just a smug "I told you so" look on my face. (And yes, that is a "totally joking and I don't wanna get anyone offended at me" smiley.)

Anyways, my thoughts? I... don't know if I really care that much. The meth part is horribibble, but I'm not against homosexuals, but prostitution... is illegull... along with meth... which is worse... uhhhhhhh... so... it's bad. Mabye it's not that I don't care, just it doesn't concern me too much, not being Christian, gay, a meth addict, or a... Colorado...ian?

Thus concludes the most uncertain and ... filled paragraph I ever wrote in my entire life.

So you have no problem with him buying $200 worth of crystal meth, but you call him immoral because he's gay? This is one of the reasons I'm agnostic. I could care less if someone was gay, but the Church obviously places someone's sexuality over committing criminal acts.

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The guy that claimed to have had sold the meth and done other things with Haggard took a lie testing-thingy. He passed about the drugs but nothing else. (or so CNN, Fox, and CNBC said)

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Um... I don't think Ian (or anyone from the church) said he has no problem (or less problem) with him drug dealing, and no one even said the problem was that he was gay so much as that he slept with a prostitute, something that the church teaches is wrong, strait or not.

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That is correct, Ace. I most certainly do not approve of either sin - the drug use or the sexual immorality. But I do have to challenge you, Ace. Is your agnosticism based on a mistaken notion of being in a position to judge the morality of God's church? If so, you might want to reexamine yourself and your own faith. Rejecting the God of Scripture simply because you do not like His ideas of morality is neither rational nor safe.

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Polygraph (a.k.a. "lie detector") tests are really shaky, and are hardly worth submitting as evidence. They simply measure someone's level of anxiety, which could be triggered by someone telling a lie but also by plenty of other factors. If you're easily intimidated yet still innocent of a crime, you could essentially "fail" a "lie detector" test simply because you got nervous.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Looking back on my post, I think I miswrote it. And I'm not really sure what I want to put down in writing, but here we go.

I probably shouldn't have put "reason I'm agnostic". More accurately, it's one of the reasons I get annoyed with the Church from time to time.

I call myself "agnostic" because the Church has never been a big part of my life. My dad grew up in a family big on Catholicism, while my mom's family was Christian. I never found out what her denomination is, but it's most likely the same. However, I don't think I've ever been to a Mass outside of some Baptisms/Confirmations I've gone to and the usual Masses I go to at school (I attend a Catholic school even though religion is not big in my house). I did have a Children's Bible that I read often when I was a kid, but that was about it. I also believe in Jesus Christ and most, if not all of the Bible stories. But without religious teachings, I did not learn the specific passages like many. By the time I was enrolled in a Catholic school, I had formed my own opinions about society, some being that I find no problem with homosexuals, gay marriage, abortions, and the like. My opinions that I've formed conflict with some of the Church teachings. That is why I call myself agnostic.

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This is getting off-topic, but...



The problem is that you can say that about anything. Why do you reject the God of Islam? Why do you reject the Hindu gods? Heck, I'll bet you already reject religions you've never even heard of. If I started telling you about some obscure African religion, you're going to decide from the outset that you're not going to believe in it, right? Is such a prejudiced rejection "rational" and "safe"?

I don't think it's even possible to be "rational" and "safe". I think the best you can do is go where your heart takes you.

- Kef

Guys, there is a topic on beliefs and this isn't it.


Toastpaint.

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Or reason. As I have demonstrated numerous times in this board over the past few years, I believe I have sound reason for believing as I do, and, as yet, have seen very little at all by way of any evidence to convince me otherwise. So, at least from my perspective, I am standing on ground that is both rational and reasonably safe.

Ace:

You say you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, correct? What would you say is your understanding of who he is and what he accomplished for you? If you'd prefer to continue this discussion outside of this thread, please feel free to PM me.

But my basic point, which I feel necessary to reiterate, is that if God exists, then his own moral authority far outweighs any moral authority any of us have, and that for two reasons:

1. As his creatures, and him being our Creator, we owe all that we are and all that we have to him anyway. Therefore, he has the absolute right to tell us what he expects from us, as well as what he wants FOR us.

2. As fallen, finite, and sinful human beings, we are not nearly as capable of judging what is good, right, and salutary as we sometimes think. Human beings can be - and often are - wrong. This is why we need God to instruct us and to lead us, because he knows better than we do what is good for us.

But back to our basic topic: this pastor has made some serious mistakes - mistakes that bring dishonor to the name of Christ and that disqualify him from the Office of Holy Ministry. This does not mean that he cannot be forgiven for his sins. Nevertheless, it would be inappropriate for him to continue to serve in Word and Sacrament ministry.

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