Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

well, didy, as usual, i find myself agreeing with you in a rather unusal way. i don't particularly accept the "if" of your statement, but i agree exaclty with everything you said if i were to accept that.

and regardless of religion, i certainly believe in forgiveness (ultimately, of course. but breaking secular law has its punishments), and i also think he is unfit to be a church leader.

That I can understand, Putin. My point is that one should not base their belief or unbelief on their own personal feelings toward morality. Saying, "I don't like that this God tells me how I ought to live; therefore, I'm just going to decide not to believe in him." It would be like saying, "I don't like that these policemen keep imposing their traffic laws on me; therefore I'm just going to pretend that they aren't real." Not a very smart approach, if you ask me. But that seemed to be what Ace was saying in that one post (which he has since clarified), and that is why I felt obligated to challenge him.

But Ace, if you want to talk about getting annoyed with churches, I've had plenty of reason to be annoyed (in fact, down-right angry) over the past three months. Martin Luther had plenty of reason to be annoyed with the Church in his day, as well. And St. Paul became so annoyed with the church of Corinth, that he wrote at least two letters attempting to correct them. Nevertheless, regardless of its mistakes and failures, it is not the place of mere mortals to judge God's Church, but God alone. But if the failures of the Church did not dissuade St. Paul, Martin Luther, or myself from true obedience and trust in the true God, then why let it dissuade you?

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That's not really agnosticism, Ace. As far as I can tell, your beliefs are more Deist. And actually, if you DO believe in Jesus as the Messiah and the Bible stories and stuff, then I'd honestly still consider you a Christian. *braces self for impending thwacky*

As for the original post, I'd like to say that I just find the irony of the whole thing to be very delicious.

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I'd agree. Agnosticism is the belief that it is impossible to know whether or not a god exists. You just sound disillusioned with the church.

Like that old bumper sticker: God, save me from your followers! I can certainly see how many people are turned away from any specific religion when they encounter so many members following said religion who interpret the teachings of said religion differently, thereby having different basic philosophical beliefs, even though still claiming to follow the same religion. Funny how that can happen--especially when the differences in interpretation range in personality anywhere from Ghandi-like affability and benevolence to Inquisition-esque judgement and persecution.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

What's going on in Colorado? Now we've got Paul Barnes, paster of a large church in the Denver suburbs, stepping down while admitting to years of closeted homosexuality. Unlike Ted Haggard, however, he didn't show up in the movie Jesus Camp making extraordinarily ironic remarks. One begins to wonder how many more closeted pastors there are in the country.

Mike

Actually, Mandy, that's pretty much the basic Nicene-Athanasian definition of a Christian. No Thwacky For You! [/soup nazi]

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THREAD OVER! YOU= VERY LOSED!

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

NO! The Power of the True Grinch will protect me! GET HIM BORIS!!

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Wanna borrow some force powers?

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And .

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I was making my daily lurk when I realized I had never answered this:

However, Mandy basically hit the nail right on the head. I do believe in Jesus. I basically believe what it says in the Nicean Creed, which I think you are familiar with.



I think I am just disillusioned with the Church, like Zeno said. I've always considered myself a Christian deep down.

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That's understandable, Ace. But honestly, between the two of us, which of us has more real reason to be disillusioned with the church? I had a congregation that called me essentially revolt against me because they're a bunch of selfish, self-serving, manipulative, and greedy slobs. Most of the ones that fit that description are now gone - thank God - but nevertheless, I am still committed to serving that congregation, even if all that remain are a handful of faithful widows.

You say you believe in the Nicene Creed. It is good that you do. But you might want to pay attention to that last part, the one which speaks of the Holy Christian Church. For it is through the Church that the Lord has chosen to grant us his gifts of Word and Sacrament. Is the Church full of sinners? Absolutely. And I would contend that that's exactly where they (we) need to be.

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