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Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
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Author:  lahimatoa [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
For everyone who missed it, MIchael Richards (better known as Kramer from Seinfield) went insane while performing a comedy stand-up in California a couple days ago. It seems there were some hecklers going at him (which happens all the time) and that these hecklers were able to get under Richards' skin, maybe because they were black. Richards goes on a racist, ugly ugly tirade while dropping the n-word all over the place.

Here's a link

Anyway, I knew it was only a matter of time before someone took this and extrapolated it out to all Americans.

link to article

Michael Richards goes off on a racist rant and makes a fool of himself while offending who knows how many people. Awful thing, he needs help, and he is definitely a racist.

But then there's the above article, entitled, "Americans still haven't purged themselves of racism." The gist of the article is that Americans "still haven't purged ourselves of racial prejudices and animosities. We've buried them under layers of sincere enlightenment and insincere political correctness, but they're still down there, eating at our souls."


Good grief. It's one thing to acknowledge that there are still Americans who are racist. I'll agree with that... there will always be bad apples in the barrel.

But to say that Americans in general are racist and if you don't act it you're just pretending not to be is stupid.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's stereotypes for ya'. It's not the first time.
Author:  ramrod [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
lahimatoa wrote:
But to say that Americans in general are racist and if you don't act it you're just pretending not to be is stupid.
I have to agree with you on that. There are some people out there that give America a bad name, and make us look like a bunch of racist, but that's the farthest from the truth. Unfortunately, it's the bad things, like racism, that is shown throughout the media, and not the good things.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
lahimatoa wrote:
Good grief. It's one thing to acknowledge that there are still Americans who are racist. I'll agree with that... there will always be bad apples in the barrel.

But to say that Americans in general are racist and if you don't act it you're just pretending not to be is stupid.


But, but, but!....*sings*"Everyone's a little bit racist, sometiiiiiiiimes!"

Seriously, though, yeah--I think he MIGHT have been trying to be completely over-the-top funny to get a comedic point across...but it definately was in bad taste and very bad form. Does it necessarily mean that he himself is a racist? Maybe, maybe not. However, I think it does at least make the point that while Americans do not reserve judgements based on racial differences, we still cannot help but acknowledge that different races exist, which perpetuates racism at least on a fractional scale. Every time you hear about voting statistics or SAT scores divided by race (as well as other categories, such as gender, age, and location), you acknowledge the difference and give power, however great or small, to such divisionary thought.
Author:  furrykef [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd rather give Michael Richards the benefit of the doubt (unlike, say, Mel Gibson), albeit with caution. His remarks did have some kind of context, although of course his behavior was still out of line. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying I wouldn't be so quick to say he's obviously a racist; there's still some chance that his intentions were misunderstood.

- Kef
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:48 am ]
Post subject: 
You know, its funny: When black people call themselves that, Its not racist. Why is that?
Anyways, Kramer probably just went nuts for a while or somehing. I still look at him as the guy who always comes in the door sliding on his feet.
Author:  soce,the elemental wizard [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I feel like if certain people cannot do something, then nobody should be able to do something.

For instance... there are a lot of music videos on BET where black people rap about having tons of money--


But just imagine if those videos had white, Jewish people rapping about having lots of money!!! People would completely flip out!!



So I don't think anyone should do it. It's one thing to admit that you are living comfortably... but to go on and on and on and shove piles and piles of dollar bills in my face.. I mean who really does that?????
Author:  furrykef [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:09 am ]
Post subject: 
soce,the elemental wizard wrote:
But just imagine if those videos had white, Jewish people rapping about having lots of money!!! People would completely flip out!!


Eh, would they really?
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:14 am ]
Post subject: 
furrykef wrote:
soce,the elemental wizard wrote:
But just imagine if those videos had white, Jewish people rapping about having lots of money!!! People would completely flip out!!


Eh, would they really?

No, they wouldnt. It is what some people, if not most people, assume, so they would go casually about and not care.
Author:  putitinyourshoe [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah i prefer to remember michael richards the way in which we love to remember him. as for this flip-out thing, it makes me pretty ill. he was probably on some substances, not that that's an excuse, but that's just terrible judgement, and a horrible thing to do and say. but regardless, he did it, and that sucks.

as for the bigger picture, racism in america.... hmm. i have my own ideas on "racism" because i think i depends on how you define your terms. if you mean it as in: "hatred of other people for their ethnicity, nationality, skin color, etc." then i think that it is unfair to call the entire country racist. however, i have read scholars who use broader definitions of the word which i support, although the word itself has so much power that it's really difficult to talk about racism because it's Racism. anyone catch my drift?
Author:  buhubs [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't understand it, everywhere, even at my school, people use racial slurs almost every hour, but there aren't big news spreads about them. Richards should know what he did wrong but millions of average joes (and jodi's) use these terms everyday and get away with it. Richards is taking all the heat like he's the first person to use it, what about all these other people! Why aren't they being focused on too? I'm wearing my Kramer T-shirt to school tomorrow and not caring if people get upset, he should not take all the racist slur trash, it's unjust.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
buhubs wrote:
I don't understand it, everywhere, even at my school, people use racial slurs almost every hour, but there aren't big news spreads about them. Richards should know what he did wrong but millions of average joes (and jodi's) use these terms everyday and get away with it. Richards is taking all the heat like he's the first person to use it, what about all these other people! Why aren't they being focused on too? I'm wearing my Kramer T-shirt to school tomorrow and not caring if people get upset, he should not take all the racist slur trash, it's unjust.
In a way that's not quite true, because people the average Joe doesn't do it in front of a big crowd, and the people he does it to don't expect good things out of him like it was for Michael Richards. Are we supposed to just let famous people that everyone looks at be racist and still be famous and have thousands of fans? In a way you are right though, and that's why people should stop listening to Fred Phelps and not publicize everything he says.
Author:  furrykef [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Off-topic: I do get annoyed when people mix up characters and actors, intentionally or not. He's "Michael Richards", not "Kramer". It's bad enough when actors are typecast by studios; we don't need audiences doing it too.

Image

On-topic: Here's an idea about racism that I don't think has been mentioned. I think it's possible to be "subconsciously" racist, but not "consciously" racist. Let me explain what I mean: suppose there were such a person. On an intellectual level, he doesn't believe in racism; he thinks all people are equal. He doesn't say racist things, he condemns racism, he avoids people who are racists. But things get uglier on the "gut" level, in ways that are difficult to describe. He's not revolted or anything, but, say, the dreaded "N" word might cross his mind, but he doesn't want it to.

Unfortunately, one of my best friends -- and worst enemies -- is such a person. Me.

I have no idea why. I hardly had any concept of racism at all until middle school. In elementary school, I saw skin color for what it is: just another random physical attribute like height, hair color, whatever. While I was taught not to discriminate based on race, I don't think I'd have ever done that anyway. I didn't see a reason to.

Well, I had gone to a good elementary school, but I went to a bad middle school. I had to deal with more thugs there. It was around that time I started noticing more racial division. Black people act differently than white people do. I don't think that has to do with genetics, that they're born in such a way that they act differently. They see other black people acting in certain ways and they decide to be like them. When I reached high school, I was immersed in ghetto culture. I had to listen to hip hop every day on the bus. I had to listen to my classmates calling each other a certain epithet every other word. I tried to accept and even embrace this culture. I couldn't. It's just not me.

I think my current behavior (I say "behavior" although it's much more of an internal thing) is something of a reaction to my rejection of the ghetto culture. I'd liken it to when I was a Christian and then I wasn't anymore, and instead I quickly became a staunch atheist -- as a reaction to my rejection of Christianity. There was a period where almost just the mention of Jesus would annoy me. I grew out of that, and I expect I'll grow out of this, too. I know that racism is a more serious thing than that, I'm just explaining that I think there's something similar going on in my mind.

I think another thing is that I don't interact with black people very often. I don't have any black friends in real life right now, because I'm somewhat antisocial and I don't really have any friends in real life right now. I think if I had some social interaction going there, my little subconscious racism thing would probably just fade away. After all, if I saw for myself every day that black people are really just ordinary people, it'd be hard to think otherwise.

Anyway, you know what I usually do when I see a black person? I smile. If I'm in a generally sour mood, I might not (who smiles in a sour mood?), but I try to smile. The smile serves three purposes: one, most people like to see a smile. Two, I think it might provide a positive message, that white people and black people don't have to hate each other. Three, it reminds myself of that positive message as well. I try to make a sincere smile, not a fake smile that I put on only for show. It's difficult to do a truly fake smile anyway (at least if you're not doing a really exaggerated and sarcastic smile). Ever try it? You might end up intending a fake smile and discovering a second later that maybe you're more sincere than you thought.

I hope that people don't think less of me because I admit to all this. Again, I think I'm really not racist. I have racist thoughts sometimes, but they're not thoughts I can really control right now. And even so, I don't assume the worst when I meet a black person; I don't think that they'll try to steal something, or anything like that. But if I were in Michael Richards' position, and I thought I was being heckled and I became enraged and just totally lost my self-control, might I say what he said? Sadly, it's possible. Again, I don't think that's OK, but I can understand it.

I wish more people would spend some time thinking about these sorts of things, trying to understand behavior, instead of just taking one look and saying "He's definitely a racist, I'll never watch his stuff ever again." No, he shouldn't have behaved that way, but we all do things we're not proud of... um, I don't really know how to conclude this post, so I'm just going to stop it here...

Best wishes to all people of all races,
Kef
Author:  Inverse Tiger [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice, thanks, kef. I couldn't find a way to say that without coming across the wrong way, but you did it fine.

We're ahead of a lot of places on earth when it comes to racism. Our laws culture are entirely against discrimination against minorities. But there is that subconscious thing there... Blacks are referred for medical treatments later than whites, leading to much of their lower life expectancy. People with black sounding names on forms or voices on telephones, all other things being equal, are turned down for loans and jobs more. So something's going on here.

I admit to a very similar situation as kef. In elementary school, I had black friends and no one thought anything of it. In middle school, they went separate ways without hostility, though the ones who hadn't been my friends were hostile. In high school, it was like they had segregated themselves into this other culture I didn't understand and clashed with my values. It was extremely perplexing. While it's not logical, what's going on is they're integrating themselves into the culture of their parents and the role models/cultural icons they see, which still carries an intense distrust of white people and the whole system. Ironically, this is making more white people skeptical of them.

I realized a couple years ago that, without even knowing it before, I was visibly repulsed by black people. Like if one would walk up I'd obviously move away and have a negative facial expression without even thinking about it. I really don't know why that was even the case, because I wasn't consciously racist and it's not like a black guy killed my dog or anything. I didn't even know I was doing this until someone scoffed at me for it and kinda lurched forward with a "BOO!" and walked off in a huff. Now I try consciously either not to change anything about what I'm doing or, even better, to look positive.

America isn't de facto racist, but there's just a weird tension between white and black cultures that is, shall we say, less than ideal. The black reaction to whites feeds the whites subconscious reaction to blacks and it just keeps going. Both sides have a responsibility to chill out and get to trusting each other.
Author:  lahimatoa [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's my thing... I'm much more affected by how someone is dressed and how they are acting than by their skin color. Bill Cosby? Not threatening. I love that guy. Tupac Shakur? Scares me to death. Why? They're both black, right?

Tupac dresses like a gangster. He acts like a gangster. Cosby does not.

So if I'm walking down the street and someone dressed threateningly glares at me while holding a gun, I'm going to be threatened by that person. Doesn't matter if they're white, black, mexican, Indian, French, etc.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
furrykef wrote:
Off-topic: I do get annoyed when people mix up characters and actors, intentionally or not. He's "Michael Richards", not "Kramer". It's bad enough when actors are typecast by studios; we don't need audiences doing it too.
Eh... I agree, I just thought it was funny how COLA called him Kramer, and I forgot the guy's real name for a second and didn't feel like loooking.
Author:  furrykef [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm surprised my post above didn't get more responses yet. Surely people have an opinion on that sort of thing?
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't get why everyone's getting all fussed about a Z-list actor/comedian. This kind of thing should be on such a big level if, say, Jay Leno or Larry the Cable Guy made racist comments. But a guy who hasn't done anything noteworthy since Seinfeld ended doesn't really represent mainstream America.
Author:  Hi Guys [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
lahimatoa wrote:
Here's my thing... I'm much more affected by how someone is dressed and how they are acting than by their skin color. Bill Cosby? Not threatening. I love that guy. Tupac Shakur? Scares me to death. Why? They're both black, right?

Tupac dresses like a gangster. He acts like a gangster. Cosby does not.


Let the guy rest in peace, man...

Anywho, while I do agree that there are certain degrees of racism in America, it's certainly not as bad as a lot of other countries. I think that the bigger problem in America is more towards stereotyping than all-out racism.
Author:  Didymus [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Tupac would scare the crap out of me if I were to run into him.

Mostly because he's dead.

And I'd be afraid he's going to eat my brain.

Or is that just a racist stereotype about the undead?
Author:  putitinyourshoe [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:13 am ]
Post subject: 
zeno and i told ya didy, you're a conditionalist. undead=condition.

seriously though, kef hit the point that i was getting at, as well. and it's pretty brave to admit stuff like that because, well, it's not something we like to talk about. it's scary, and it's hard to reconcile it with ouselves. your heart is in the right place, kef by trying to be more open to people of other races, and i think you're right about diversity, i like when i feel surrounded by a lot of different, heterogeneous cultures.

as far as racism/sterotyping goes... i like the movie Crash a lot, mostly because it ultimately leaves you feeling like nobody is perfect, and we all have our hands in racism in different ways, not to mention the (again very difficult to talk about) point that we sometimes reinforce the bad sterotypes about ourselves, which unfortunatley keeps them alive (and by we i mean every-every-everybody).
Author:  lahimatoa [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Let the guy rest in peace, man...


Oh, right. Tupac's dead. I lose track of which rappers are alive, dead, and just shot.

How about Snoop Dogg? He's probably going back to prison.

Does that work?
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
Or is that just a racist stereotype about the undead?
I resent that remark!

I have a friend, I use that term lightly, who has it in his mind that every NBA player is a thug. Which is completely bogus. Yeah there are players that are thugs but not everyone who puts on a NBA Uniform is a thug. I mean look at Shaq he is the complete opposite of a thug, he is a sheriff. He is a real Miami-Dade County Sheriff. That's what he does during the off-season. He also tracks online child predators. Then there are players like Tim Duncun, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Garnett and Alonzo Mourning who have rap sheets so clean you could eat off them. If he wants to look for thugs, he should look at his UConn Huskies.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
I have a friend, I use that term lightly, who has it in his mind that every NBA player is a thug.


Wow...somehow, I can't really picture Yao Ming as a thug...
Author:  Droideka [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Didymus wrote:
Or is that just a racist stereotype about the undead?
I resent that remark!

I have a friend, I use that term lightly, who has it in his mind that every NBA player is a thug. Which is completely bogus. Yeah there are players that are thugs but not everyone who puts on a NBA Uniform is a thug. I mean look at Shaq he is the complete opposite of a thug, he is a sheriff. He is a real Miami-Dade County Sheriff. That's what he does during the off-season. He also tracks online child predators. Then there are players like Tim Duncun, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Garnett and Alonzo Mourning who have rap sheets so clean you could eat off them. If he wants to look for thugs, he should look at his UConn Huskies.


There are people that think that way about paintball... I hate it... stupid stereotypes...
Author:  Simon Zeno [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
You know, racism's never going to go away if all people do is sweep it under the rug. "Political correctness" doesn't mean a darned thing if it's only on the surface. You can stop people from saying "the n-word", but you can't stop 'em from thinking it.

So, either people are going to have to realize that some people are racist and not make an explosive deal over it, or they're going to have to do more about racism than just saying "You can't say that". If it's to be treated as a serious issue, then it requires more of a solution than what is currently being applied.
Author:  lahimatoa [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
Resurrection!

Obama's speech on Race in America brought this whole thing back up for me.

I wish we could just get past race. (Irony alert goes off)

I feel bad for MLK, Jr. His dream was that his children would be judged on the content of their character, and we're still not there.

Judge people on their words, their actions! Why is this so hard?
Author:  The Noid [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
I could reply to that and be really racist, but nahhhhhh.

Anyways, Obama was saying what we've all been thinking. Guy's got cojones.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
I think Obama is endangering himself a little bit. To say that his racially intolerant white grandmother was "A typical American" is not helping his cause.
Author:  HHFOV [ Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Racism in America (AKA Michael Richards goes insane)
Well, for the time period, he's right, you know...

Everybody was really racist until pretty recently..
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