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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:41 pm 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
well, smoking is a deadly habbit, but banning smoking in bars and in non-designated areas outside is prejiduce. Smokers should be able to smoke outside, or in bars, because in a bar, if your not hitting on chicks, your either drinking,watching the game, or smoking.


COLA, you're right, for the wrong reasons...
It's not exactly prejudiced to ban smoking from bars and stuff like that, but it's still not "right".

The whole "smoking ban" issue puts me at odds with myself. On one hand, I LOVE being able to go to restaraunts, bars, etc. without coming out smelling like a smokestack. On the other hand, I also feel that, since restaraunts, bars, etc. are private property, the owners of the property should be able to decide for themselves whether or not smoking should be allowed on the premises.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:58 pm 
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Lu Bu wrote:
I don't believe in the second hand smoke thing, either. You could get a little sick from it, but second hand smoke isn't as bad as people say.
Today I heard that 40,000 people a year die from second hand smoking. I checked to see if that was accurate, and the number is actually 53,000 according to Wikipedia, and they cited two sources for that too. That's almost as much as murder.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:47 am 
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That's from long term exposure, though. People who don't have enough common sense to smoke outside of their homes. If they couldn't smoke they'd just do something like pot or get drunk and cause harm to their families that way.

Those deaths will happen regardless, it's just a matter of how they happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:19 am 
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In addition, secondhand smoke causes respiratory problems in nonsmokers such as coughing, phlegm, and reduced lung function. Children exposed to secondhand smoke are at an increased risk for sudden infant death syndrome, acute respiratory infections, ear problems, and more severe asthma.

I've been having alot of phlegm and I've been exposed to alot of cigarette smoke, Aaargh! This only makes me more aggrivated at them, please, if you or someone you know smokes please tell them to stop before it's too late, for the good of themselves, infants, children of all ages or anyone.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:40 am 
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The new anti-smoking laws in Queensland were great.
I could come home from work without stinking to high heaven.
Even if there are 'restricted smoking areas' inside bars and clubs, smoke still wafts to other areas (the bar I worked at had 'smoking areas' inside, but you could still smell it throughout the building).

As for smoking areas in restaurants, I think it's extremely unhygenic to allow smoking anywhere where food is served. I mean, would you want the chef to be puffing away while making your meal?

Banning smoking in public places isn't discriminating against people who smoke. Only the action of smoking. I overheard a conversation after the law was introduced, of smokers saying they are being treated as 'second class citizens' and they should have a separate poker machine room for smokers.

Another issue in Australia is that one state is banning people from smoking in their cars while children under 16 are passengers. Now, I'm all for banning smoking in public places, but the family car is private. I think this may be stretching it a bit too far. I'm sure parents smoke at home while their kids are around, so why would the car be a different situation?
Well, if you funded it for us, we might consider it!!!!!

In conclusion, I'm obviously not a smoker, but laws are in place for a good reason, with all the research surrounding the issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:48 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
If smokers know what they're doing to themselves, then why don't they quit?

"I'm gonna get cancer. *puff* I should probably stop. *puff* I just need another roll of nickels and I'll hit the jackpot on this thing!"


I hate that whole belief.

You see, Ian, my dad smokes. He has tried to quit, but do you have any idea how hard it is? My mom managed to quit, but it was extremely difficult.

And that thing you said at the end...wow. Do you have ANY idea how offensive that is?

Sheesh. So many people seem to actively hate smokers. Not smokING, smokERS.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:19 am 
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
my dad smokes. He has tried to quit, but do you have any idea how hard it is? My mom managed to quit, but it was extremely difficult.

My last martial arts instructor, a really cool guy, had previously been hanging with the wrong crowd. He was addicted to all kinds of horrible things, including heroin. When he cleaned up and settled down, he was able to kick heroin cold-turkey. He said kicking smoking was much much harder. He wasn't able to as long as I knew him.

That's why it's a good idea just to avoid stuff that'll make you dependent in the first place. But it's not right to make character judgments based on the baggage they carry from past decisions.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:06 am 
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PizzaTrophy wrote:
Another issue in Australia is that one state is banning people from smoking in their cars while children under 16 are passengers. Now, I'm all for banning smoking in public places, but the family car is private. I think this may be stretching it a bit too far. I'm sure parents smoke at home while their kids are around, so why would the car be a different situation?


I say if there is a way to enforce it, it would be wise. While I can see your side that parents who smoke in the car probably smoke in the home, the other side says that smoking in the car is like talking on a cell phone while driving; it puts others at risk for a sooner death. A car is a much smaller space than a house, so the effects are that much greater when fresh air is not reintroduced rapidly. I tend to be supportive of the government protecting those who are unable to protect themselves, as long as it's practical.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:14 am 
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I'm sorry, Mandy. That was really insensitive for me to say, and I'll never say anything like that again.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:42 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
I'm sorry, Mandy. That was really insensitive for me to say, and I'll never say anything like that again.


Thank you, Ian. *hug* I know you didn't mean it like that.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:45 am 
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And I didn't. Sometimes we all need to remember to love the sinner and hate the sin. Image

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:56 pm 
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My opinion on the subject:
I hate smoking. Not the people who do it. I think it should be outlawed in all public places. I think people should try to quit as hard as possible. There should be heavily funded free programs to help people quit.

My experience:
My great aunt died not long ago after a life of smoking and on and off smoking near her life's end. She started when people didn't know the consequences. My grandma now despises smoking and cries when she thinks about it. I hate to see people I love cry. I now hate it even more. When I'm around people who do it I try to be polite but I still hate it. My mom says that even though she has been smoke free since I was 1 0r 2 she still likes to sniff around people who do it (horrible addiction).

I heard that until smoking was recognized as dangerous cigarettes were refined to be more and more addicting, and they have not taken away those chemicals.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:17 am 
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I'm a smoker, averaging ten a day (though I've gotten worse recently). And I'll tell exactly why it's so hard to shake this habit. It's because my whole social life - from uni to work - has been based around smoking.

I met all the closest friends that I have by joining the little gaggle of addicts outside the back door - from Galway to Belfast to Bournemouth and back again. My boyfriend's a smoker, as is most of his friends.

So that's really the toughest thing about trying to quit for me. I can shake the physical addiction quite quickly, and have done so before (I've recently quit eating sugar which, for me, was a bigger hang-up). But if I were to quit smoking, I'd have to re-design my whole social life and my daily routine, which is a lot harder.

(Yes, peer pressure - ptff.....)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:42 pm 
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What's Her Face wrote:
I'm a smoker, averaging ten a day (though I've gotten worse recently). And I'll tell exactly why it's so hard to shake this habit. It's because my whole social life - from uni to work - has been based around smoking.

I met all the closest friends that I have by joining the little gaggle of addicts outside the back door - from Galway to Belfast to Bournemouth and back again. My boyfriend's a smoker, as is most of his friends.

So that's really the toughest thing about trying to quit for me. I can shake the physical addiction quite quickly, and have done so before (I've recently quit eating sugar which, for me, was a bigger hang-up). But if I were to quit smoking, I'd have to re-design my whole social life and my daily routine, which is a lot harder.

(Yes, peer pressure - ptff.....)


Re-designing your life is, in my very honest opinion, much better then doing what you are doing.

Why do I say this? Because over 3/4ths of my family does it. Including some of my closer relatives.

But for me, it isn't even a question. I've lost my great-aunt due to it. And my step-grandmother only has two months left to live because of it.

When I'm 30 or 35, I'll probably loose over 3/4ths of my family due to their own caused early deaths.

Lastly, I speak out against it because I'm allergic to the smoke. My eyes tear very badly and breathing becomes much, much harder for me.

Peer pressure might be difficult, but the effect of suffering your entire life is much, much worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:05 pm 
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You're right, and welcome back. :) But right now, I'm full of empty promises and I-know-I-shoulds. But I will, someday, steel myself up to take the plunge, and I'm sure that I will quit eventually.

I can't make any meaningful promises to myself or anyone else right this minute, though. Namely because I'm holding a cigarette as I type this, and I'm already thinking of the next one.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:39 am 
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My grandfather has had two heart attacks, lung cancer, and a host of other serious illnesses due to smoking. And being sXe I naturally hate the whole thing.
But I think my home-state (Ohio) passing a public ban on smoking indoors was ridiculous. Well they should of given exceptions to places that get over 50% of their revenue from alcohol. Or given permits to "Only Smoking" restaurants. Its villianizing the smoker, not the habit of smoking.
EDIT: BAH! Stuupid computer. sorry fro the double post.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:59 am 
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DESTROY US ALL! wrote:
My grandfather has had two heart attacks, lung cancer, and a host of other serious illnesses due to smoking. And being sXe I naturally hate the whole thing.
But I think my home-state (Ohio) passing a public ban on smoking indoors was ridiculous. Well they should of given exceptions to places that get over 50% of their revenue from alcohol. Or given permits to "Only Smoking" restaurants.

I think I'd go one step further and say that they should leave the smoking issue up to the owners of the individual places of business. :-)

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Its villianizing the smoker, not the habit of smoking.

Exactly.

Personally, though, I think that neither smoking nor smokers deserve to be villified.

Quote:
EDIT: BAH! Stuupid computer. sorry fro the double post.

What double post? [/Ifixeditanddidn'tevenneedducttape]

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 am 
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Even though I'm a nicotine addict myself, I disagree. Smoking bans aren't a vilification of smokers, imo. It's a health measure for the benefit of smokers and non-smokers alike - though whether it'll change anything, who knows. Worth a try.

We have the ban in Ireland, I think it's done a lot to improve the atmosphere for non-smokers, and to help smokers control their smoking on a night out.

(Personal experience...... when I was living in England and Northern Ireland (when they didn't have bans), I could smoke an entire pack very easily on a night out. Back here in the Republic, I'd probably smoke half a dozen cigarettes in a night. Many smokers that I know have said the same.)

And giving pub/restaurant owners a choice in the matter is useless, imo. Every one of them would choose to have smoking every time, because they'd be afraid of losing business. And they're not thinking of the health of their staff or patrons, either. Really, it's best to legislate so that every business is on the same page.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:11 pm 
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I remember a few years back, St. Louis proposed a smoking ban in restaurants. One restaurant/bar actually built a glass enclosure for their bar area so that patrons in that section could continue to smoke, but the restaurant patrons could still eat without being bothered by the smoke. They even had a fancy ventilation system that sucked up all the smoke and blew it outside so that it wouldn't seep into the restaurant section.

As a non-smoker myself, I dislike going to certain restaurants and having to deal with cigarette smoke. For example, Sherman's, a place in Greenville, I won't even go in there anymore, because their designated No Smoking area is pitifully inadequate, and I don't want to choke to death waiting for my dinner. When I go to bars, I just deal with it - there's pretty much no way around it - but I hate having all my clothes smelling like cigarettes (part of the reason I rarely go to bars anymore).

My point? If we're going to preserve the rights of smokers, we also need some way to insure that their rights don't trample all over the rights of those of us who do not smoke. Restaurants can help by having decent ventilation that will allow us non-smokers to enjoy our meals and/or drinks in relative comfort.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:57 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
One restaurant/bar actually built a glass enclosure for their bar area so that patrons in that section could continue to smoke, but the restaurant patrons could still eat without being bothered by the smoke. They even had a fancy ventilation system that sucked up all the smoke and blew it outside so that it wouldn't seep into the restaurant section.


That's a funny mental image: a smokers' zoo of sorts. See smokers in a perfect replica of their natural habitat! Still, it's a good idea...a proactive approach. However, I imagine most businesses aren't going to want to spend the money to put such a system in place.

The major challenge to secondhand smoke arguments was presented a few years back by researchers James Enstrom and Geoffrey Kabat. They concluded that the dangers of secondhand smoke were overestimated by earlier studies. However, their research was funded by the tobacco industry and their methodology was seriously flawed. Here is the American Cancer Society's rebuttal to their findings. (The rebuttal contains a link to the original paper.)

Furthermore, even Engstrom and Kabat's paper admitted that secondhand smoke carried with it an increased risk of heart disease in nonsmokers. Despite this, an urban myth has grown in certain circles that researchers have found that secondhand smoke is totally harmless. Bullhockey, folks. Cigarette smoke is inherently harmful...common sense should tell you that.

Finally, both the Phillip Morris and R.J. Reynolds tobacco companies admit that secondhand smoke is harmful, and advise individuals to follow the Surgeon General's recommendations regarding passive smoking. I expect these magnanimous statements are in place for legal rather than altruistic reasons, but their inclusion is still significant.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:10 am 
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Wesstarrunner wrote:
There should be heavily funded free programs to help people quit.


Amen to that! We have rehab for drugs and alcohol, why not smoking?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:33 am 
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
Wesstarrunner wrote:
There should be heavily funded free programs to help people quit.


Amen to that! We have rehab for drugs and alcohol, why not smoking?

Smoking doesn't kill other people in big fiery car crashes like drugs and alcohol do. Just kills them slowly and quietly. People don't notice that type of stuff. Sad but true, yeah... That's my guess anyway. There are probably more reasons why people don't get widespread-angry about smoking... cigarettes aren't catalysts for child and spouse abuse, etc. :/

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:51 pm 
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Well, I'm gonna try to find out the fool-proof fact that will get people to stop smoking

even though there's no such thing, even in those anti-smoking commercials, smokers do think It's gross but are still not going to quit.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:04 pm 
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SMOKING CAUSES WRINKLES.

That's what my prof said to us this semester. :mrgreen: ("If you don't care about your health, maybe you care about your looks.")

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:49 pm 
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buhubs wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to find out the fool-proof fact that will get people to stop smoking

even though there's no such thing, even in those anti-smoking commercials, smokers do think It's gross but are still not going to quit.


That's because it's an actual ADDICTION, not just something people can just immediately change because they know it's bad for them. I'm so sick of that whole mindset.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Yeah, I agree with Mandy. Both my parents smoked at one time or another (only one of them actually were still smoking when I was alive, though). Still, they both haven't smoked for a while now, but they said it was really hard to stop. I actually probably had a lot to do with getting my mother to stop smoking, because I would NOT for the life of me stop bugging her about it when I was a little kidlet. Yay me.

Still, though, yeah. Even though smokers know what this stuff is doing to them, it's not easy to quit. Not at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:09 pm 
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Einoo T. Spork wrote:
Still, though, yeah. Even though smokers know what this stuff is doing to them, it's not easy to quit. Not at all.

Well, what about some sort of government program to help as said "we all have a right to live".

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:39 pm 
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
That's because it's an actual ADDICTION, not just something people can just immediately change because they know it's bad for them. I'm so sick of that whole mindset.


Some people CAN "immediately change", though.

My dad, for example, smoked like a train for years (he pretty much had a cigarette in his hand from when he woke up until he went to sleep), but he stopped on a bet that he couldn't. He just quit, like that...

My stepdad did something similar. He tried using "programs" and patches, and gums and always failed. He quit about a month ago by just not buying anymore.

You CAN quit smoking if you want to bad enough. To make villains of tobacco companies and victims of smokers is just wrong.

Granted, RJR isn't a saint, but smokers knew what they were getting into. If you can't take the risks, don't light up. I smoked for a short while, but the down side vastly outweighed the "benefits".

(it should be noted that there are people in my family that farm tobacco)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:55 pm 
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buhubs wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to find out the fool-proof fact that will get people to stop smoking

If "getting cancer and dying" is not your "fool-proof face to get people to stop", you're going to be hard pressed to find a worse one.

The majority of smokers aren't going to stop no matter what you show them.

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