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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:04 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Even then, I don't think it's fair for them to be labeled "cult".
I've labeled Westboro Baptist Church as a cult. Is that fair?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:07 am 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Even then, I don't think it's fair for them to be labeled "cult".
I've labeled Westboro Baptist Church as a cult. Is that fair?


Maybe. I don't know. They're a bunch of jerks.

The real problem I have is that people are calling Scientology a cult, meaning it is somehow less credible and evil..

Cult, in all reality doesn't mean anything like that. All it means is a religious group who's views are not considered mainstream.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Rad: The reason Scientology is considered a cult (and is) is because unlike decent religions, they charge money to become a member. The founder even said that to be a millionaire you just need to start a religion. That is pretty much what a cult is. It's a huge pyramid scheme that charges money to find faith, and hurts people and attempts to censor all criticism.

With Christianity, you can find faith there, find help, and they don't make you pay for it, they also don't blackmail you into not leaving.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Atresac wrote:
Rad: The reason Scientology is considered a cult (and is) is because unlike decent religions, they charge money to become a member. The founder even said that to be a millionaire you just need to start a religion. That is pretty much what a cult is. It's a huge pyramid scheme that charges money to find faith, and hurts people and attempts to censor all criticism.


Ok, put yourself on the reverse of this. How would you feel if YOUR religion were called a cult? To say they aren't decent is making a value judgment that is, to be honest, sort of bigoted. I'm sure there are people who would call Christianity a cult and could provide similar reasons to the ones you have to back up the claim. You're not in a cult, are you?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:11 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Atresac wrote:
Rad: The reason Scientology is considered a cult (and is) is because unlike decent religions, they charge money to become a member. The founder even said that to be a millionaire you just need to start a religion. That is pretty much what a cult is. It's a huge pyramid scheme that charges money to find faith, and hurts people and attempts to censor all criticism.


Ok, put yourself on the reverse of this. How would you feel if YOUR religion were called a cult? To say they aren't decent is making a value judgment that is, to be honest, sort of bigoted. I'm sure there are people who would call Christianity a cult and could provide similar reasons to the ones you have to back up the claim. You're not in a cult, are you?


Fact is that there is no "true" definition of cult. However, most people consider a cult something that denies you rights, and, in the case of scientology, charge money to join.

For more information I would reffer you to the following link (I know the website it is on is not the most official site, but it's an interesting read nonetheless):

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:25 pm 
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Atresac wrote:
Fact is that there is no "true" definition of cult. However, most people consider a cult something that denies you rights, and, in the case of scientology, charge money to join.

For more information I would reffer you to the following link (I know the website it is on is not the most official site, but it's an interesting read nonetheless):

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

"Most people" really isn't a strong case for calling Scientology a cult. They may or may not charge money to join, and they hardly deny someone's rights. If that's the case, then I say that most political organizations would also fit that definition as well (they also deny rights, to a lesser degree).

I've read that ytmnd thing and, to be honest, it looks to me to be a lot of unsubstantiated claims and appears to be a little more than an attempt to slander scientology. They never actually offer proof of their claims.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Scientology being called a cult, provided you do it for the right reason. Calling them a cult because you view them negatively and want others to do so IS NOT the right reason.
The definition of cult is a religious group that shares beliefs generally considered to be out of the mainstream.
There is no negative connotation there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:29 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Atresac wrote:
Fact is that there is no "true" definition of cult. However, most people consider a cult something that denies you rights, and, in the case of scientology, charge money to join.

For more information I would reffer you to the following link (I know the website it is on is not the most official site, but it's an interesting read nonetheless):

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

"Most people" really isn't a strong case for calling Scientology a cult. They may or may not charge money to join, and they hardly deny someone's rights. If that's the case, then I say that most political organizations would also fit that definition as well (they also deny rights, to a lesser degree).

I've read that ytmnd thing and, to be honest, it looks to me to be a lot of unsubstantiated claims and appears to be a little more than an attempt to slander scientology. They never actually offer proof of their claims.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Scientology being called a cult, provided you do it for the right reason. Calling them a cult because you view them negatively and want others to do so IS NOT the right reason.
The definition of cult is a religious group that shares beliefs generally considered to be out of the mainstream.
There is no negative connotation there.


Well it seems pretty solid to me. I mean they offered the sources and all. Either way, I still consider them a cult, even my teacher does, who doesn't really give a care about religion.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:33 pm 
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Like I said, it doesn't matter if you call them a cult or not, provided it's for the right reason and you understand that "cult" in itself is not a negative term.

(This is like when people say something is a "theory" in an attempt to degrade its value. It's purely a semantic thing, but it annoys me.)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:38 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Like I said, it doesn't matter if you call them a cult or not, provided it's for the right reason and you understand that "cult" in itself is not a negative term.

(This is like when people say something is a "theory" in an attempt to degrade its value. It's purely a semantic thing, but it annoys me.)


meh. I suppose you are right. It's kinda like the term "emo". Doesn't really mean anything even though most people interpret it negatively.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:44 pm 
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From good ol' Dictionary.com:

Definition of 'Cult' wrote:
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.


No. 6 is what we learned in my Sociology class (even though No. 5 is labeled as the "Sociology" definition, oddly enough). Of course, there's also the old joke that "all religions are simply cults with more members." But this is getting a wee off-topic, even though the main topic has pretty much been neutralized as it's been shown to be a falsified list.

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Last edited by PianoManGidley on Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:45 pm 
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Ok, now that we've severely derailed this conversation, I think a jar of Uncle Seethroo's Old Fashioned Toastpaint is in order. Image


I remember that my aunt and uncle used to be bitterly against games like Dungeons and Dragons. It wasn't that they were afraid of children being drawn to Satan as much as it was that they felt the game was taking time kids should be praying or doing homework or something like that.

They gave up on that, eventually, as they decided that everything else could be "bad" for the same reasons. (I'm glad they gave up instead of banning TV and everything else).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:49 pm 
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I decided not to do anything ever as it wastes time I could be watching H*R Image

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:54 pm 
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I've always enjoyed good Fantasy literature and games. Heck, at seminary, we had a group of guys who played D&D and Shadowrun.

All I can say is, "I am Goldstaff, the Sorcerer of Light!"
"Oh, yeah? Then how come you had to cast Magic Missile?"

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:06 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
I've always enjoyed good Fantasy literature and games. Heck, at seminary, we had a group of guys who played D&D and Shadowrun.

All I can say is, "I am Goldstaff, the Sorcerer of Light!"
"Oh, yeah? Then how come you had to cast Magic Missile?"

Yeah, but Lutherans drink alcohol, so they're going to hell anyway. No harm in playing D&D. /Holly's Aunt :p :p

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:09 pm 
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Yeah, well I suppose the Apostles and C. S. Lewis are in hell, too.

Which reminds me: I suppose C. S. Lewis is a Goth, too, since he writes fantasy literature and drinks whiskey. And so is G. K. Chesterton.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:58 pm 
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Well there is something to this list. My dad never lets me wear black clothing, or be listening to ANY of the music I like around family members. And at my school anyone who has a band shirt on is automatically labeled as a goth (even if they despise slipknot). The list may be bogus as a whole, but it does shine light on some of the preconceptions of most people.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 am 
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-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically.
[Associating with myself: So wearing a vest at times, carrying a backpack everywhere, and having a midwestern accent in the South makes me Gothic?]

-Sleeps too excessively or too little.
-Is excessively awake during the night.
[No, that's for different reasons.]

-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
-Spends large amounts of time alone.
[I am an introvert, and I am not ashamed.]

-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through
meditation.)
[THAT'S A LIE! It was just recording sessions. Sheesh. It's getting to where you can't make audio auditions without people thinking you're summoning demons or such. I only screamed bloody murder because Douglas told me to!]

-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.
[So Knights of the Old Republic is bad?]

-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer.
[So I'm a goth for being a geek? What does that make me?... A Geeth?]

Wait for me, Didy! I want to ransack Rome too!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:06 am 
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Somm-1 wrote:
Wait for me, Didy! I want to ransack Rome too!
*In full Roman Legion attire*

BRING IT!

Toastpaint.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:07 am 
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Somm-1 wrote:
-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
-Spends large amounts of time alone.
[I am an introvert, and I am not ashamed.]

Trust me, you are NOT an introvert... If you are, I would be too... I'm 90% extrovert...

Anyway, according to that stuff, I'm a Goth...

Mind if I sack Rome with you guys?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:09 am 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
Somm-1 wrote:
Wait for me, Didy! I want to ransack Rome too!
*In full Roman Legion attire*

BRING IT!
Yeah, considering you're not even Italian.....

Anyways, after going through this list again, I decided to sent this to a friend of mine, to see what he'd think of it. I didn't tell him it was fake. He went ballistic on how outrageous it was.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:10 am 
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ramrod wrote:
Yeah, considering you're not even Italian.....
England and Wales were part of the Roman Empire, and I am part English and part Welsh.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:24 am 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
ramrod wrote:
Yeah, considering you're not even Italian.....
England and Wales were part of the Roman Empire, and I am part English and part Welsh.
But Italy was a part of it too.



Anyways, in order to promptly paint the toast, I'm wondering if there is anything similar to this online that is not satirical. Because, quite frankly, i wouldn't be surprised.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:27 am 
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PianoManGidley wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
What's Her Face wrote:
Occasional JD wrote:


Lolz. :D

And here's what some nutjob Bible-thumper forum has to say about it.

Shame - that moderater "Pastor Ezekiel" is quite good-looking, judging by the avatar. Too bad he's a big auld looper fruitcake.

Man, when i get home, Im going to post that on /i/.


Before you guys get your knickers too much in a twist over that "pastor," you might want to read up a bit on the Landover Baptist Church itself first. While that site and its forums are obviously satirical as well, it IS sad to know that there are still nutjobs in this country who would earnestly think that way *coughFREDPHELPScough*.


This is very interesting because a friend of mine found the Landover Baptist forum a few years ago and took it to be truth, and so did I. I've been wondering about the validity of the site ever since. Thanks for sheding some light on it Pianoman.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:12 am 
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That better be a joke, especially the count dracula cereal part (though they got the name wrong, so it could be real) I'm kidding Catholics! I'm one too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:12 am 
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Ah, my hordes are gathered now...

YEEEAAAAAAAHHH!!! [/deathly battle cry]

*invades Rome*

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
Ah, my hordes are gathered now...

YEEEAAAAAAAHHH!!! [/deathly battle cry]

*invades Rome*


*tries to invade Rome*
**trips and knocks over the Emperor*

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:19 am 
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All Right, Droid-Dude! Show him who's boss! Give him a Noogie!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:47 am 
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*also invades Rome*
*pushes BTG into a well*
Didymus wrote:
All Right, Droid-Dude! Show him who's boss! Give him a Noogie!
*gives Droideka brass knuckles* Give him a REAL noogie.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Alright....this is getting way too off topic for me liking. Can we please get off the subject of invading Rome and get back to being a Goth please?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:17 pm 
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ramrod wrote:
Anyways, in order to promptly paint the toast, I'm wondering if there is anything similar to this online that is not satirical. Because, quite frankly, i wouldn't be surprised.


That's a good idea. I've been reading in here and now you've got me a thinkin'....

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