Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

I was watching Larry King very early this morning and I was quite intrigued to discover that he wears jeans (not that you ever see his legs) with his shirt, suspenders, and tie), but that's not what I remember the most about the episode.

There were some doctors on there discussing something called the "Ashley Treatment" of a mentally handicapped girl. Knowing nothing of medical stuff (other than procedures I've had and ones my dad's had recently), I like to find out all I can, so I started paying attention.

It turns out that the parents of a severely mentally handicapped, 9 year old girl have, in an effort to "make her more comfortable", used several radical surgeries and treatments to stunt her growth. While her parents and their supporters have stated time and time again that they are doing what is in her best interest, several disability advocates have argued that it is purely for the convenience of her parents, since it makes her easier to move around and such..

Personally, I find it kind of scary to think that something like this could/would be done under the guise of increasing the quality of one's life. To me, it seems a bit like amputating the arms and legs of a quadriplegic, because, hey, they're not using them.

Linkage:
Her Parents' Site
CNN
The BBC

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I think that is terrible. It is pathetic what measures a parent would go through to make their life easier, at the expense of their child.

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Well, She has, like, Mental Retardation, cerible palsy, and other things i cant remember... Doesn't seem like she should have lived longer than she already has.

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In short, I agree that the parents are doing the right thing. You don't know the pain of monthly cramps unless you experience it, and a 3 month old can't understand why that happens, for instance. They stunted her growth so she stays small. This means that she can have the best comfort possible. She does look relaxed in photos, unlike others who are stiffened. They're doing this so she can stay at home, and that is the most loving thing a parent can do. If anything institutionalizing is the most convenient way for them to solve this problem. But they're willing to try anything for their child to grow up (seriously, no pun intended) the best way possible.

Go ahead, flame away and nitpick on smallest details.

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I agree with Sree and bwave on this one. That's just wrong. I can't believe parents would do that to a child.

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Well, would you rather deal with her getting hurt because she's too big? or what about when she has her first Period, How would you feel then?

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I guess you have a point there. I'm gonna have to think about this one.

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I think it's fine if it makes it more convenient for the parents. If it's easier for them to help her, then she'll be more comfortable. They probably go through so much effort to make her more comfortable. I think it benefits her as well as them. As long as it's not making her die any faster, then it's fine.

You know, I'm reading opinions on both sides, and each one is making a valid point. Honestly, I don't know what to think in regards to this.

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The problem I have is that I'm very uncomfortable with the precedent this sets. "Hey, that kid's paralyzed, let's cut off his legs." doesn't sound too far off. Also, I'm a little put off by the attitude on her parents' blog. They write as if there are no moral questions raised by this and seem to be of the opinion that anyone who thinks so is some sort of bigot.

I grew up with a guy that works with the mentally challenged. In his mind this is a big shot to the rights of the mentally challenged, although he concedes that, in this case, she's probably never going to be able to make decisions for herself.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

So what happens when you are 80 years old and in a wheelchair, and Alzheimer's has begun to confound your thinking? Are we going to start subjecting the elderly to "procedures" to make them easier to deal with?

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I'll just say at this point that the parents' argument isn't about making life easier for the carer. It's about ensuring Ashley does not develop health problems associated with a larger weight, and has more personal contact with her carers instead of being moved around in impersonal pullies and lifts. Rightly or wrongly.

Yes, its called Florida.

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Whoa - that cat looks exactly like an old school principal of mine. Freak-eeeeeee.

Anyway........ Tizzle Teh Pizzle.

Um. I agree with ramrod.

But my initial reaction was disgust. I qualify for mental disability. Barely.

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"Explain to me how drowning them would not ruin their date."

Hmm.

So, from my understanding they stop her growth [for life?] to keep her from hurting herself?

I don't know about you, but I think it would be easier to hurt yourself if you are the size of a child.

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Well, the thing is, she has the mental capacity of a toddler. What is going to happen when she reached puberty? How do you explain that to her? That's what the proponents of this procedure are saying.

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No, not really. Ashley is pretty much incapable of movement, so that's not an issue. It's about preventing general health problems and discomfort to her in general. It's all in the blog.



Actually, she started going through puberty at the age of six, and her doctors are trying to accelerate it with estrogen shots.

So then she's going to look like a six-year-old with a sixteen-year-olds..."features"?

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Uh, no. Her "features" have been surgically removed.

Props on the Hugh Laurie avi/sig combo, btw.

Well, I think it's fine. What exactly are they taking away from the kid that makes it bad? I mean... I just think it's more practical to have a child's body, rather than an adult's body, in that condition. I'd have wanted it.

Exactly. I feel like her parents are doing her a favour. She doesn't need the pain of having an adult body.

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NOT A SIGNATURE!

Wow. What a thread for me to come back to. I have mixed emotions about this case. At first, I did feel sorry for Ashley's parents, and like several of you girls, I took note of the fact that Ashley won't ever have to experience the pains of puberty. However. I'd like to point out some flaws in arugments people have made:



That word "grotesque" REALLY offends me. I'd like to go into a feminist rant here, but I'll try to avoid it. In my opinion, what is TRULY grotesque is that this girl's rights - and her own body - are being completely violated.



This girl may not have the cognitive functions of most kids her age, but her mind IS working - she can recognize her family members, she likes music (and can recognize a favourite). I'm with Sree:

{quote="StrongRad"]The problem I have is that I'm very uncomfortable with the precedent this sets. "Hey, that kid's paralyzed, let's cut off his legs." doesn't sound too far off.[/quote]

I love that all these people are saying, "Well, she's not cognisent enough to miss her breasts and uterus, so what does it matter?" Well if that's the case, then she's not cognisent enough to CARE that she has them in the first place, so why not leave them be?

And then there was this little "pearl of wisdom" contributed by someone on CNN.com that really made me angry:



BECAUSE HER BREASTS AND UTERUS WERE WORKING, MORON! THEY WEREN'T DISEASED WITH CANCER, OR CAUSING HER PAIN.

Sorry for the yelling. I suppose I feel so passionately about this issue because of my own relationship with a disabled little girl. When I was in junior high, my sister and I used to baby sit for a little girl with moderately-severe cerebral palsy. Kelly couldn't walk - still can't - has trouble with motor skills, and speaks very slowly and is difficult to understand if you don't know her well. She lives with her grandparents, primarily, though her mom and step-dad are very, very active in her life. There are lots of things Kelly can't and never will do. And her grandparents certainly would have an easier time moving her around if she was smaller (she's 16 now...I can't believe it...she's always been like a little sister to me), but knowing them, I'm sure they'd be appalled at the "Ashley Treatment". But her mind was amazing...when she was a kid, she was more imaginative and intelligent than kids several years older than she. And it always infuriated me when people treated her otherwise. Now I live in the States and she still lives in Saskatchewan, and she's a beautiful, bright, happy teenager. I talk to her via IM every so often (we usually have voice chats, as she can't type very quickly), and she asks me for advice about boys, and makes me laugh when she says she needs to get out of our old hometown. She also recently went to Ottawa (Canadian capital) as an advocate for disabled persons.

I realize Ashley's situation is much more dire than Kelly's. But I know another little girl who has a similar condition - Emily. I think Emily was officially diagnosed with severe cerebral palsy - she can't walk, talk, hold her self up, etc., etc - very similar symptoms to Ashley. But knowing Emily's parents and grandparents (family friends), I'm sure they would be horrified at this treatment.

Sorry Ashley's parents - I don't see your decision as being in her best interest, but rather in yours. Hire an in-home nurse to help you out, if you want to improve Ashley's quality of life and help your selfish selves out too.

Skee out.

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Yes, but try and explain why they're is blood coming from her and she's not hurt when she turns 13. She's not going to understand, and every month when it happens, she is going to think she's dying because she is bleeding.

She has the mind of a child, she cant move, and breasts would impair how she is handled and cared for.

I do believe it is justified because of the immense strain that would befall her parents. They take care of her, they love her, what they are doing is best for her.

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Choco, your argument there is wrong on so many levels. Do you honestly think she is the first mentally-handicapped girl who will have to endure menses, and might have some difficulty understanding what's happening to her? As Amy points out, it's not that this girl's reasoning capacity is completely gone.

Furthermore, as someone who worked in a nursing home - and with many Alzheimer's patients - I can honestly say that "convenience of the caregiver" is not a valid argument for violating someone's rights. If it endangered her life, that would be one thing, but this is different.

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As long as the parent's intentions are good, and she's not being hurt in any way, I really don't see much wrong with it...

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Sister, now that we're grieving
Our fingers will falter
Our lungs will be leaking
All over each other and without even speaking
We'll know that it's over and smile and go greeting
Whatever comes next

While I'm not really sure it's the right thing to do, her parents do seem to have her best interests at heart. I'm not especially educated on the matter, though.

Also, am I the only one who thinks Pillow Angels would be a pretty good band name? *shot*

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It's the "Pillow Angle" name they've attached to Ashley that makes me think they're treating her more like a pet or novelty than daughter. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should call her some sort of demeaning nickname, but you know, she's their daughter. Shouldn't they say "She's our daughter" and not "She's our pillow angel".

It's like they're de-humanizing her.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.