Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

I wouldn't know if it would be good to force them or to ask them nicely. I don't believe in them marrying/ adopting and I am leaning to just wanting to ban it altogether

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A single person can adopt, right? So why not a homosexual couple? If asingle person adopts a child, can't he or she than begin a homosexual relationship afterwards?

This is, of course, assuming that a single person can actually adopt. I'm not quite sure if they can.

If a single person can adopt, there goes the main argument against gays adopting: that children need a father and a mother.

There's something in me that for some reason isn't comfortable with gays adopting, but I can see that it's not screwing up kids in the places it's allowed. Unless I ever come across a good solid reason instead of some vague unease of unknown origin, I don't think gay couples should be kept from adopting. Maybe people are afraid gay parents would try to force their kids to be gay? But all kids are different from their parents, so every child is in danger of being used for vicarious living. Any child being forced to be someone they're not in any household should have a right to complain and maybe get out if it's bad enough.

(The adoption angle might fit into the thread, though the marriage doesn't. Correct me if I'm wrong PMG)

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ATTN: LOWER BOARD USERS HAVE MOVED TO ANOTHER FORUM. COME JOIN THE FUN!

Ah, but I notice you, like me, are in the United States. Also, if I understand correctly, you object on the basis of religion. But the United States isn't a Christian nation. This nation embraces all religions, and even the lack thereof. Our First Amendment specifically forbids us from establishing a national religion. So don't you think using the law to restrict people due to whatever your religion says does not make sense?

- Kef

I actually, however radical, draw a lot of lines from homosexual discrimination to the discrimination of blacks from the 1860's to the 1960's (especially in America). Their both based traits that the minority can't control (color of your skin vs. orientation), even though it may be possible to rid them of their "sickness" (i.e. plastic surgery (think Michael Jackson) vs. Homosexual Boot Camps). Blacks couldn't use the same drinking fountains while homosexual couples can't get equal rights that heterosexual couples would (no marriage, even no civil unions in most states). And frankly, it just makes me sick. Sure, they're on different levels, but I don't want some lame argument about how "God doesn't like it," as justification on why the minority can't get the same rights as you.

I hope, in the future (hopefully near), we will all be teaching our children in the classrooms about how wrong we were to discriminate against people that are different than us, just as we were taught about the civil rights movement.

Well, according to the Wiki article on LGBT Parenting:





I'm sure some people think that, even though it's obvious that straight parents don't raise exclusively straight children...even though some might put heavy pressure on their kids to be straight, regardless of the child's natural sexual orientation.



Kinda...I guess...I mean, discrimination is discrimination--it's preventing a certain group of people from having the same equal rights and liberties as any other group of people based on unfounded prejudices. These rights, as defined by many, do in fact include marriage and adoption. Of course, the question of how much of a "right" marriage or adoption is becomes a question in and of itself. Obviously, adopting children isn't a "right" granted to everyone, as any adoption center worth its weight will do extensive background checks on any prospective parent, because the well-being of another individual is at stake. It's akin, I suppose, to tests done on the blood donated by individuals at blood donation centers and drives.

However, the absolute exclusion of homosexuals from adopting based solely on their sexual orientation should not be allowed, unless it can be proven conclusively (and the evidence shows very much otherwise) that all nonheterosexual persons would create unfit conditions in which to raise a child. Again, akin to the "rule" I've seen when I've donated blood stating that "If you are a male who has had sex with another male since 1977, you should not donate blood." I can understand the risk of spreading unwanted diseases, but that's what those tests are there for, right? Just like they do background checks on parents to make sure that they're fit to parent a child?

Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic, since I was supposed to be talking about rights...not things that apparently are NOT rights. Any person, no matter how mentally handicapped, no matter what skin color, no matter what socioeconomic status, no matter what religion, no matter what sexual orientation, can sit on any seat on the bus and can drink from any water fountain. Gays haven't been forced to the back of the bus yet, and I'm not trying to set up a slippery-slope fallacy saying that we will overtime...but we DO need to keep any sort of discrimination in check. Hate crimes against gay people aren't punished the same way that a hate crime against a religious or ethnic minority is punished. Fire a gay person in the right state--simply for being gay--and no one cares if they make a fuss. Fire an ethnic or religious minority in the same state--or in ANY state--and it becomes national news. THIS is the sort of discrimination I've been talking about. I get emails from the Human Rights Campaign every week, and I don't remember the number of times I've been urged to contact my senator or congressman to support a given bill that would end such discrimination. That means it's still a problem.



Funny that you would admit that it's an uncontrollable thing, sexual orientation, then state in the next clause of your sentence that it's a "choice"...

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Yeah, that was bad wording, J. Still, that's probably all it was, so there's no reason to make an argument out of it.

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So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, blue skies from pain. Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell?

You know, Wes, you say that you don't think gay people should be allowed to adopt children. What you haven't said is why. I, like you, believe that homosexuality is a sin, but what does that mean as far as the law is concerned? Should they not be allowed to adopt because they sin? I'm not sure if you realize this, but everyone sins. Should having premarital sex be illegal? Should couples who slept together before getting married not be allowed to adopt either?

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Bah. I don't even know what I was thinking. Hell, that's what happens when I only get 4 hours of sleep. CHANGE'dddd.

Well having premarital sex should be illegal, but the latter is not in my opinion. If I had it the world would be conformed to meet Christianity and everyone would follow it(but human nature says something different).

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*blink*
wow... just wow...
How/why should premarital sex be illegal? I mean, not everyone feels that it's wrong or immoral.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Wow, Wow... Wow.
You do not know how many things are so very wrong with that statement. In truth, you remind me of Hitler, minus the extreme prejudice against Judaism, (Although you haven't shown any sign of how you feel about Jews). You want everyone to follow your religion, and you would be willing to force it onto them if you had a big enough stage. You are why they're are extreme Atheists in this world, you are the kind of person society doesn't want to acknowledge exists. If anything, you are a young Fred Phelps.

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BCUZ GOD HAETS WEN U HAS SECKS WIFOUT MARRIG

DA BIBLE TELLS ME SO

Seriously though, when it comes to religious extremists (Not just Christians, don't have a hissyfit and explode on me), do you honestly think they care whether or not everyone agrees?

I don't know about you, but I don't buy a pair of shoes before trying them on first.

As for the World following Christianity, that's a bit harsh and narrow-minded isn't it?

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QFT.

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Narrow-mindedness is the core of most world religions. There's not a whole lot of room for openness in a "Do this or burn forever" mentality.

Not all religions are like this. Actually, it's generally not the religion, but the people who bend the religion to their will. Like Wes.

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Yeah, like Communism.

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If you have nothing to add to the conversation, please don't post here.
Also, nice Reductio ad Hitlerum on the last page..



Can you, at least, try to be civil?
While I don't agree with Wes, at least he's not taking pot shots at individuals..

Zeno, it's totally arguable that this "narrow-mindedness" of which you speak also applies to those who are not religious. It's not "do this or burn forever" so much as it is "do THIS and you'll live forever in the kingdom of Heaven."
Not all (or even most) Christians are believers out of fear. It's a common misconception.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

But it's TRUE. I'm not taking shots at him. I'm telling the truth. He's bending religion to his will.

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No, you're taking pot shots at him.. "Yeah, like Wes" is very much a pot shot. He's not "bending religion", he's just stating what his beliefs are. Granted, I DO NOT disagree, but at least he's being semi-civil about it.
Not that it really matters... This thread is about the discrimination of gays, not premarital sex (although, I suppose you could discriminate against gays by bringing the two together, saying that premarital sex is illegal and that gays can't marry, therefore gays can never have sex).

So, umm... How about a toastpaint?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Don't you mean you DO disagree?

It wasn't a pot shot. I'm telling you, religion is not meant to be followed like this. Have individual thoughts. The bible is not your rulebook. If you are Christian, the bible is your GUIDEBOOK.

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You're right about the "AGREE" thing. I DO disagree (or DO NOT agree... I combined the two).

The decisions about what are or are not personal attacks are mine, as the R&P moderator, to make. If you disagree with them, I encourage you to go to the other R&P moderator (ramrod) or an admin and talk to them about it.

Anyway, like I said... Let's get this thing back on topic.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Uh, Wes, I typed my last post (which I'm quoting again below) for a reason. I'd appreciate an answer, rather than A) ignoring what I said, and B) making exactly the same type of comment that caused me to type it in the first place.



And yes, you other guys need to calm down. We already had this thread locked once...

- Kef

It'd be extremely off topic and a horrible example of reductio ad Hitlerum.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

There needs to be a thread for the discussion of the place of differing moral systems in politics or something. Because that's what all this stuff boils down to. That'd be one piping hot thread tho...

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ATTN: LOWER BOARD USERS HAVE MOVED TO ANOTHER FORUM. COME JOIN THE FUN!

Can we get back to the topic, please? Wes is probably going to end up missing my post again...

- Kef

That is not something to be proud of, but that is for another time and place.

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Alright, enough. I am getting sick of the bickering.

Wes, while I understand you have your values and beliefs, the US cannot ban premarital sex. That goes way beyond the jurisdiction of the gov't. They have no right to invade on one's personal life. You can't ban homosexual sex, nor can you ban heterosexual sex, whether married or not. The United States is not a Christian country, nor should it ever be. Sure, we can use religion to guide us on our daily lives, but we as a country shouldn't have to follow it. What about the other religions? Shouldn't they have as much say as Christianity?

Now Wes, please stop stating your opinions as fact, because they're not. I don't want to sound rude, but you're starting to peeve me off with your extreme religious fanaticism.

Everyone else, please stop fanning the flames. I really only see a few good posts made here, and they're made by people like Furry Kef, Pianoman, Rad and Dids. Kef makes a strong argument that I greatly agree with.

Now, if you're going to just sit there and post anymore crap, I'll have to start deleting posts. If you have something useful to say, then go right ahead and post it please. Thank you.

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It wasn't a Reductio ad Hitlerum, it was breaking Godwins Law. Had I said "Oh, Wes is christian, and Hitler was Christian, so that must make Christianity evil," then it would have been Reductio ad Hitlerum.

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