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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Them too. From what I gather reading the Old Testament, his coming was already anticipated even in the very beginning. His coming was even for those ancestors of humanity who had first turned away from God, so why not for every subsequent generation?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:06 am 
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Yeltensic wrote:
If you could magically win a billion dollars, but a random person would drop dead somewhere in the world, would you take the money?

....with the unusually low value I place on both life and money, that could be a difficult hypothetical question for me to answer.


One could take it, and use the money to provide medical support for children that would otherwise without it. Or food for the starving.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:10 am 
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Yeltensic wrote:
If you could magically win a billion dollars, but a random person would drop dead somewhere in the world, would you take the money?

....with the unusually low value I place on both life and money, that could be a difficult hypothetical question for me to answer.


Random people are dropping dead somewhere in the world every second, so yeah, I'd take it. Specially if I could put it to a really good use for the world at large.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:14 am 
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Dark Grapefruit wrote:
Yeltensic wrote:
If you could magically win a billion dollars, but a random person would drop dead somewhere in the world, would you take the money?

....with the unusually low value I place on both life and money, that could be a difficult hypothetical question for me to answer.


Random people are dropping dead somewhere in the world every second, so yeah, I'd take it. Specially if I could put it to a really good use for the world at large.

Who's to say you'd be doing a bad thing by taking it? For all you know, you could kill someone who's being tortured, or is slowly dying of cancer and wants to die, or some sort of guy that's about to rape and strangle a little kid, or something.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:45 pm 
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Yeltensic wrote:
But what if this random person was healthy, happy, and contributed a lot to society?

...well, I suppose it would be helpful if you're jealous of this person. :p
That'd be bad. If I found out it was a good person, I'd probably get rid of my ill-gotten gains by sending a lot to their family or whatever group they wanted (not sure I'd tell them that I was the reason they lost a loved one).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Let's take the question to another level: What if you could give a billion dollars to the poor and starving, but you had to take your own life?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:01 am 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Let's take the question to another level: What if you could give a billion dollars to the poor and starving, but you had to take your own life?


Depends on how it was distributed. If you give $1 to one billion people, all the money will be gone, but $1 will only go so far even in the poorest countries.

- Kef


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:14 am 
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I'm a lot like Kef. I feel like we're organic machines destroying the world, but we're precious and make every moment count.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:01 am 
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Even from a non-religous point of view, life should be taken with value. If we see ourselves as useless little creatures and throw ourselves away, we make ourselves useless. Everything is valuable because it has use of some kind, period. So, why not spend your life helping others and making the human race useful?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:18 am 
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You are so right, Otaku. Took the words right out of my mouth. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:27 pm 
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IantheGecko wrote:
You are so right, Otaku. Took the words right out of my mouth. :)


No, I don't like touching other peoples' mouths. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:05 pm 
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Human life as a whole? Who knows? I'm not a scientist or a theologen... I don't have the attention span. I do like to think of myself from time to time as a simple philosopher. We all remember the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". A good rule along the same lines but with deeper meaning is "Love thy neighbor as thy self".

I know that I like to be alive. Yes, life is suffering. Yes, humans are selfish. Yes, if there was no human life on Earth, there would be no wars. But I still value my own neck, and would be very displeased if someone were to murder me in cold blood or carelessly run me over with their SUV. Following the logic of the golden rule, if I want to live, I should love all human life. This is why, if I were somehow granted ultimate legal authority, I would ban abortion, euthanasia, and capital punishment.

In my day-to-day thoughts, I wish death to murderers. They deserve it, and the elimination of murderers betters society. However, I know that the value of life is not measured by my opinion, but by how much I love my own life. I have thought things that are deeply evil, and though I have not practiced them, I have extensively dwelled on them in my mind. I believe that a human life is equally external (actions) and internal (thoughts). That being said, I believe that the life of a murderer is equal to mine. My argument against capital punishment is that I wouldn't want to be executed.

Abortion. A dangerous word to say on an internet forum. I'm going to say it anyway, because I am passionately against it, in all situations. I'm thankful that my mother gave birth to me, even though I know that she would have been happier if she never married. My mother would have never contemplated abortion, in fact, she was pregnant with me when she traveled to Washington D.C. to march in the annual March for Life. My mother threw away her dreams so she could raise me, and I owe her everything because, despite all the evil in the world and in myself, I know that I have an equal if not larger capacity for good, and a bigger likelihood to act on the good things rather than the evil things (this will be my penance for my evil thoughts). I love living, and I know I have a purpose. Who am I to deny another human, unborn or not, that chance to love life and have purpose? I am no one.

I am of the firm belief that the purpose of medicine, of Doctors, is to cure the malidies of humans and to preserve human life. Euthanasia goes against the very thing Doctors are about. Even if it ends suffering, life is suffering. If the patient wants to end his life so badly, he may kill himself. As cruel as that sounds, is it not also cruel to place that deed in the hands of another? Is "assisted suicide" just a fancy term for murder? This leads me to the most grisly topic of them all...

Suicide. The taking of one's own life: the result of despair, cowardice, or insanity. Well, if one kills himself, he certainly did not value his own life very much, eh? "Perhaps the answer to "What is the value of human life?" is not a universal truth, but an individual truth. Observation of myself and others has taught me that those who loath themselves or are pessimistic about society place the value of humans at low. Naturally, those who are happy with their lives, or those who have goals (a purpose), or the compassionate, or the optimistic, place the value of human life higher. We are all human, so I think that we all see a bit of ourselves in others and vise versa.

Value... ha! I wonder if such a thing as human life can even be measured.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:51 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
I look at it like this: every human life on this planet, every single individual - no matter how messed up, deranged, or degraded - is a person for whom Christ died.
I agree.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:14 am 
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I have a lot of conflicting beliefs in me. I think that there is really no general purpose in life for the entire human race. Each person must decide that on their own. My choice has been that a life is measured by how much it improves the lives of the people next in line.
Someone giving birth to children whilst being addicted to crack and essentially ruining life for their children: Worthless
Someone working to create an alternate fuel source to save us from the oil wars: Great person.

But also I think that life itself is nothing more than the cooperation of specialized cells formed over millions of years of random mutations in genes. I think the process of creating life is fascinating and wonderful in all degrees, but I don't think life has piqued yet. We can improve.

And finally I believe human life is more important than any other species. If we have to kill off every toucan in the world so the human species can thrive, so do it. I want our genes to be passed on so we can further evolve.

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