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 Post subject: The American Freedom Agenda
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:41 am 
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Here's an interesting item: a group of political thinkers is launching a campaign called the American Freedom Agenda, which is aimed at reducing President Bush's powers and overturning key provisions of the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. Here's the real kicker: the authors of the AFA have strong conservative credentials. There's not a Democrat among them. They are:

Bob Barr, former congressman from Georgia who was one of the leading voices in the effort to impeach President Clinton. Barr has been increasingly critical of Bush over the past few years, and not long ago switched his party allegiance to the Libertarians. He still claims to be a conservative, however...in fact, on his website he implies that he's a truer conservative than the Republicans currently in power.

Bruce Fein, a constitutional lawyer and a former associate deputy attorney general under Reagan.

David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union.

Richard Viguerie, longtime lobbyist and fund raiser for conservative candidates and causes. He also runs the website conservativehq.com.

The mission statement on the AFA website sums up their cause better than I could. It's a very readable ten point document, entirely free of legalese. It's worth your time to read.

So, what do you folks think? Are these guys the real conservatives they claim to be or are they traitors to the administration? What do you think of the AFA mission statement?

Mike

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Last edited by Mike D on Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:05 pm 
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Statements in bold are mine.

The AFA Website wrote:
The American Freedom Agenda’s (AFA) mission is twofold: the enactment of a cluster of statutes that would restore the Constitution’s checks and balances as enshrined by the Founding Fathers; and, making the subject a staple of political campaigns and of foremost concern to Members of Congress and to voters and educators. Especially since 9/11, the executive branch has chronically usurped legislative or judicial power, and has repeatedly claimed that the President is the law. (Though I do have to say that he DOES have power. Not full control, though. I understand what they mean by that.) The constitutional grievances against the White House are chilling, reminiscent of the kingly abuses that provoked the Declaration of Independence. (Huh. I never really thought of it like that, but...it actually makes a lot of sense.)

The 10-point American Freedom Agenda would work to restore the roles of Congress and the federal judiciary to prevent such abuses of power and protect against injustices that are the signature of civilized nations. In particular, the American Freedom Agenda would:

* Prohibit military commissions whose verdicts are suspect except in places of active hostilities where a battlefield tribunal is necessary to obtain fresh testimony or to prevent anarchy; (Agreed.)
* Prohibit the use of secret evidence or evidence obtained by torture or coercion in military or civilian tribunals; (VERY YES. For one thing, torture is incredibly inhumane and, in my opinion (and probably yours), morally wrong, but that's not it. When pressed hard enough, people will tell their tormentors what they want to hear, not necessarily the truth. So it's both inhumane and ineffective.)
* Prohibit the detention of American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants without proof of criminal activity on the President’s say-so; (Yes. The right to a fair trial, remember?)
* Restore habeas corpus for alleged alien enemy combatants, i.e., non-citizens who have allegedly participated in active hostilities against the United States, to protect the innocent; (I'd comment on this if I could remember what habeas corpus is...)
* Prohibit the National Security Agency from intercepting phone conversations or emails or breaking and entering homes on the President’s say-so in violation of federal law; (I'd burst into Call Connected Thru The NSA, but then you'd just get annoyed, so I won't. In any case, I most certainly agree. What they're doing is essentially spying. And remember 1984? I've...never read it, but doesn't the plot concern people being spied on all the time?
* Empower the House of Representatives and the Senate collectively to challenge in the Supreme Court the constitutionality of signing statements that declare the intent of the President to disregard duly enacted provisions of bills he has signed into law because he maintains they are unconstitutional; (Yes. As I mentioned earlier, the President does NOT have absolute power.)
* Prohibit the executive from invoking the state secrets privilege to deny justice to victims of constitutional violations perpetrated by government officers or agents; and, establish legislative-executive committees in the House and Senate to adjudicate the withholding of information from Congress based on executive privilege that obstructs oversight and government in the sunshine; (I agree that justice should be served to those wronged by government people. I don't understand the second part, though.)
* Prohibit the President from kidnapping, detaining, and torturing persons abroad in collaboration with foreign governments; (I think stuff like that should, for the most part, be left to the foreign government, unless said government is extremely corrupt.)
* Amend the Espionage Act to permit journalists to report on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution; and; (Indeed! I see no reason for the government to hide stuff like that...)
* Prohibit the listing of individuals or organizations with a presence in the United States as global terrorists or global terrorist organizations based on secret evidence. (If there is evidence, I definitely agree that it should be released. If not, don't do anything to the people. Simple as that.)


Overall, I agree with most of the ideas presented. It doesn't matter that they're conservatives, in my opinion. They're not extremely far right-wing, as far as I can tell, so that's fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:22 pm 
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As a moderate conservative myself, I really have to say these guys have some very good points. I don't think it's really a matter of conservative vs. liberal, but justice and common sense vs. tyranny and fear. Conservatives, as a whole, are not in favor of tyranny and fear.

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* Amend the Espionage Act to permit journalists to report on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution; and; (Indeed! I see no reason for the government to hide stuff like that...)

I can see some reason. In matters in which that information could benefit our enemies or cause harm to us, our troops, our equipment, or our strategies, then such information needs to be kept hidden. However, if such information is deemed classified only to protect certain parties for which the information could cause embarrassment or indictment, then that is no good reason for it to be classified.

But one of the key elements of good journalism is the willingness to take such risks. It is a mark of courage for the good reporter to be willing to defy authorities to present the truth, so long as it is done in a sensible manner and for the greater benefit of the nation. (one of my parishioners is a former newsman - I hear it from him).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:32 pm 
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I don't think it's really a matter of conservative vs. liberal, but justice and common sense vs. tyranny and fear.

Exactly. This is why my very conservative dad (the only liberal position he holds is that the minimum wage should increase) doesn't like this administration. He was always complaining about some shady executive orders Clinton signed, too, that didn't get any media scrutiny, so this definitely isn't a conservative/liberal thing, it's a responsible/abusive use of power thing.

I know people who are practically communists who are getting to be buddy buddy with ultraconservatives over this issue. They're actually wistful for the days when the conservatives in power actually meant what they said about reducing government interference in people's lives. It's getting pretty serious.

(Hm... maybe I should register as a republican just so I can vote in their primaries for legit conservatives...)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:15 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
As a moderate conservative myself, I really have to say these guys have some very good points. I don't think it's really a matter of conservative vs. liberal, but justice and common sense vs. tyranny and fear. Conservatives, as a whole, are not in favor of tyranny and fear.


And I'm a complete moderate, albeit with some slight liberal leanings, and I totally agree with you on that.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:57 am 
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I'm always in favor of checks on power (provided said checks do not reduce the powers of the person being checked to levels below what the constitution gives them).
With that said, I don't totally disagree with the Patriot Act (most of it does not curb the liberties of most Americans as much as critics would like you to think). I don't like the idea that it permanently grants powers beyond those listed in the constitution to certain branches of government. However, if said powers were temporary, say for a week during some horrific, "that wouldn't even happen on 24" type emergency, and clearly defined an "end" to that emergency, in which case said powers would be terminated, well, I can't say I'd march in the streets to oppose that.

With that said, I don't think that we're living under a tyrant by any stretch of the word. The very fact that people are openly criticizing this administration without fear (or at all) is proof of that.

So, I guess my answer to this is, anytime there's dialog, about possible breaches of the constitution, that leaves all parties better informed about what the constitution actually says and what's going on, it's a good thing.

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