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What do you think the world would be like if there was a/was no god? If you belive there is no god, write what you think it would be like if there was one. If you belive there is a god, write what you think the world would be like if there was none.

I'll start:

I don't think there is a god. If there was one, like the Christian one, and it was more or less allmighty, allknowing and loving, I think there would not be much pain or suffering in the world.
There would have to be some pain, otherwise we wouldn't be able to appriciate times without pain. But no extreme pain (like torture), or pain that you cannot avoid or prepare for (like earthquakes or being born in a homeless, starving family).
I think you would get to decide if and when you want to die. Also, I think the god would show itself so we could be certain it existed, and allow us to talk with it. Not all the time, but more like it comes out a few times per year or so. I don't think it would hand out many blessings or miracles. Mabye a few if a lot of people really need it, like preventing a war.
I think it wouldn't want us to worship it so much. Perhaps a little, but no billion dollar churches or Jesus camps. Also, prayers would/should always be answered. A simple yes or no would be enough. And I mean vocaly so you can hear it, not a coin flip or something like that.

That's what I think, anyway.

Yeah, it'd be nice. I don't think He works that way, though. Oh well. I guess when you make everything, you get to set the rules.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

You can pretty much do anything you want when you create God in your own image. Doesn't necessarily mean that a bit of it matches up with any real God, but it's nice to imagine.

On the other hand, if there were no God, there'd be no universe. And no me to contemplate the non-existence of said universe. Even 42 wouldn't exist.

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You're not answering the question. Come on - it'll be interesting to get a theist's perspective on this.

Me, I don't think there'd be much less suffering, persay, but I think we might have a better understanding of our roles in life and the point behind this whole universe. Maybe.

That's about it, I think.

That is my perspective as a theist. Without God, there can be nothing else. End of story. First Article of the Creed.

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Theist perspective (well, mine, anyway): If there were no God, there'd be no universe. No nothing.. No no.

It'd be pretty boring, like listening to NPR all day.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

But if there wasn't a God, and the universe and life on Earth was capable of existing without one, what then would you think the world would be like?

It would still be really freaking boring, because odds are it would just be total chaos.

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I'm tired of the whiny, "If there was a God, I wouldn't ever fail English," attitude so many people have.

The reason there is pain and suffering in the world is because of other humans. In order for God to stop it (and He could), he'd have to forcibly prevent everyone from doing stupid and evil things.

How would you like it if the next time you went to smack your sister around for using your Nintendo DS without permission, God reached down and smacked you around to stop you from doing so?

God allows us to make decisions. Sometimes those decisions hurt ourselves. Sometimes they hurt other people. But that gift of being able to choose is huge, IMO.

You left-wingers think America is a police state now? Just imagine if God decided he had to control everyone to prevent harm from happening in the world.

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geeez, lahi, what's gotten into you? You're acting like a conservative version of Rose. Knock it off. Nobody said anything about a police state..

oh, in that case, I don't know that a lot of things would be too different. There'd be no laws restricting alcohol sales on Sundays...
That's the best I can come up with.

Wait, I just came up with more.
There'd still be wars. People'd stop using religion as a justification for it, but there'd still be wars.
There'd be hate. Like war, people would stop using religion as a justification for it.
There'd be prejudice.. See above
There'd still be pain... See above
There'd still be people wanting to impose their will on others. See above.
There'd still be the "moral" crowd. See above

I'm pretty sure things that are here would still be here, people would just have other reasons for justifying it.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

So true. StrongRad seems to round out my beliefs as well, and they tie into this statement well. People can and do use any ideology convenient for them to back up their own pre-established beliefs and morals, be those morals negative or positive. Religion is just one of those tools people like to use to justify their own actions and beliefs, whether it's giving to charity or being prejudice.

Personally, I feel that so much of the time, God IS created in our own image. The major points that seem to make up any popular version of God are omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, and omnijudicious. Omnipotence: Man has always sought a way to be more powerful, to gain more power for himself. Omniscience: Man has always sought to gain knowledge, to learn ever more and more. Omnibenevolence: Man, in an altruistic state (or perhaps just a state of preserving his own species), seeks to be kinder and gentler towards his fellow Man. Omnijudicious: Man seeks to be wise in the ways of order, to make sense of the chaos that seems to rule the universe in which we live, and to lay down proper laws that encompass a fair-minded view for all individuals.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

Except that I'm not convinced that my God is created in my image. If anything, he took upon himself my image at Bethlehem, and that of his own free choice, not by my making.

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Is the insanity over yet? Kay, good.



Mind you, there seems to be plenty of people who are convinced that God is created in their image. Namely, those who subvert religion to their own ends, like Inverse and I touched on in the Parenting in America thread before it went....... all....... yeah....... anyway.

Anyway, putting that aside, I've gotta put pressure on you, Didymus, just 'cos I'm interested in what your answer would be......

If life, the Universe and everything could exist without God, how would it look like?

Well, in my opinion, if there really was a God, it would've been him who had caused the Big Bang and set everything in motion. As if the universe was one gigantic Rube Goldberg machine and he put it in motion.

To some people: Chill out. For once, let's keep a religious/politic discussion flame-free, k?

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Probably like the Hindu Samsara, the "Wheel of Suffering," or like T. S. Eliot's The Wasteland, where everything is pretty much pointless and without any meaning. Only without even the grace that keeps fallen humanity from falling into complete despair and ruin.

Probably something like this:

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I'd be the monkey with the cymbals that falls over a ledge and hits a bowling ball, which rolls and hits 10 pins, one of which knocks down a domino, which sets off the chain...

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Ian: The Rube Goldberg Machine

I agree with Sree(rhyme tyme) on this one. If there was no God the world would be the same, except that we would have to find something else to curse besides God when that jerky in the SUV cuts you off in traffic.

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Thanks, Didymus.



Actually, the Catholic Church do believe that God is behind the Big Bang. It supports their doctrine of ex nihilo.

I think more like this:

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You think it'd look like Cleveland, Ohio?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Either that, or Soviet Russia.

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What are you talking about? That's what Cleveland looks like now

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I think that's what he meant.

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I thought it was a pic of the Cuyahoga River.

but I've sent us spiraling too far off topic.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Isn't it as it is?

Anyway, it would totally depend on the character of the god in question. It would even be possible for a god to create a universe that would be exactly the same as if the universe had simply created itself.

My personal opinion on God -- admittedly not at all supported by any kind of actual evidence -- is currently tending toward that, if indeed he exists, he's probably the sort of guy who just created a set of initial conditions and a set of rules just to see what develops: we're God's fish tank.

My beliefs don't easy fit in a "god exists / doesn't exist" dichotomy, so it's not really easy to write about what I think would be if things were contrary to my beliefs.

- Kef

If there was a God, he would have done it right. He wouldn't have given all the answers to one tiny group of "chosen people" in hopes that they would spread that message throughout the rest of the world. It's pretty obvious that will only lead to war and suffering and death. He would have given all people in all corners of the world the exact same message so we'd all be on an equal playing field. He would have spread natural resources out evenly around the planet, because to do otherwise would only cause war and suffering and death.
There would be no natural disasters. We are human and screw up from time to time, but the massive wiping out of people with a tidal wave wouldn't happen.
He would not test our faith with suffering, cancers, diseases, and other such things that humans can't control just by being good people. He would not need to test our faith because he is God and he knows exactly how we feel and exactly what we will do. He would not demand we worship him because he is God, and someone so powerful would not be such a raging egomaniac.
And if stuff started going crazy, he'd pop up from time to time to say "HEY, KNOCK IT OFF!!!" If things were going right, he'd say "GOOD GOING FELLAS." Just so we know if we are on the right track or not.

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Listen to the Black Crowes.

But Amorican, did it ever dawn on you that the reason things didn't work out is because mankind told God we didn't need him to do any of these things for us? In essence, that is what is meant by Romans 1: mankind basically saying, "Who needs you, God?" and then being left with the consequences of a world from which God is deliberately absent?

Frankly, I am of the belief that, had mankind not rebelled against God, then the world you describe would be the one we lived in. It's the fall of humanity that messed it up for everybody.

And as far as suffering goes, what if God took upon himself the majority of it? What if he had endured everything that human beings had to endure, including alienation, rejection, betrayal, false accusation, even torture and death? And what if, by doing so, he showed that, despite all this mess, all this heartbreak and turmoil, all the injustice and inequity, that there is something in this world worth living for and even worth dying for? And did all this in the hope that at least a few people would see it and follow the way out of this miserable fallen world and into something far better, into that perfect world you described? That's exactly what we Christians believe happened at Golgotha.
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Okay, here's the deal. When I was asked what I thought the world would look like without my God, I offered an honest opinion - it wouldn't exist at all. But WHF basically told me that I wasn't allowed to hold my honest opinion in this thread, but had to imagine a world according to her specific interpretation.

Now I'm going to turn the tables. Those of you who offered visions of the world made by your perfect imaginary heavenly Grandfather type, now I challenge you: imagine a world, not with your own imagining of God, but a world governed by the God of Scripture. That is, a God who does hold people accountable for sin, who does expect people to fear, love, and trust him above all things, and who will judge mankind, not by today's relativistic standards, but by the actual Ten Commandments.

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Why does today's mankind have to pay for the sins of yesterday's mankind? None of us were around in the time of Romans 1. None of their choices regarding God has anything to do with people living today. And anyone born during the time of God's absence is given a severe disadvantage because all they have to rely on is the word of other humans in regards to the nature of God. And we can all agree that humans are very flawed.
My belief when it comes to this: The idea that the sins of the father become the sins of his children, seems like the backwards kind of stuff typical of these ancient times, and so the God that came out of those times is reflective of that. Adam and Eve eat forbidden fruit. God doesn't just punish them, but all who came after them.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as judgmental towards your beliefs. I am far far more open minded than I am sounding in these posts. I just believe it is necessary to question things if I hope to gain any understanding them

I also realize that I've taken this thread way off topic. So under the assumption that there is a God, I would like to answer the question, "What if there was NO God?"
. . . Assuming that humans exist, I think we would have been, in our primitive states, completely unable to explain just about everything that goes on around us in nature. The movements of the sun, stars, and moon would seem like magic to us. We would wonder why are some growing seasons so good for the crops, and others are so terrible. We would wonder why that tribe over there looks and behaves different from our tribe. And I think, most importantly, death would scare us to death . And we would have to create something supernatural to explain all these things, to keep ourselves from going crazy. Something must control all these things, and the something we come up with would probably reflect the questions we need answered, and the values we have. Very slowly, we would learn more about how the world works, and our supernatural something would adapt to our understandings. So we learn the stars aren't actually the eyes of our dead ancestors watching us sleep at night, and doing a silly little dance isn't going to make it rain. But we will always need the supernatural something to be waiting for us when we die, because no matter how much we learn about the natural world around us, death will always scare us to death.


edit: didymus, I just now noticed all the things you wrote under the----------------- at the bottom of your post. I agree, you answered the question according to the rules presented by the original poster, and for some strange reason that wasn't good enough. I thought it was a perfectly valid answer given the question.
As for you challenge, to be honest, I'm not sure I am prepared at this time to accept it. I will keep it in mind as I ponder God and religion over the next few days/weeks/whatever, and hopefully answer it with some confidence. And no, I'm not going to try to come up with some answer to disprove the Bible or anything like that. That's really not my goal at all, even if these last couple posts indicate otherwise.

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Listen to the Black Crowes.

I'll make a list of what I think:

• There would not be any war, murder or other crimes. People would know that if you disbehave, you'll catch hell for it. Quite litteraly. People would obey god to the letter. What is a lifetime of obedience compared to an eternity in heaven, anyway?
  
• We would not have geology, astronomy, biology, medicine, meterology, psychology, etc etc etc. "God did it" would be the answer for just about every question you could think of. So if you needed rain, you'd pray for rain. If you got sick, you'd pray for healing. Stars and clouds are just there for us to look at.
  
• There would not be any greenpeace or save the whales or forests or anything. The plants and animals would just be put there by god for us to eat, anyway. If something went extinct, god could just recreate it if he wanted.
  
• We would not have computers, cars, telephones, toilets, or anything. Science would be irrelevant. If you need something or want to know something, read the bible, talk to a priest, and pray.
  
• If you're born blind or without arms or such, it would be because you need to be punsihed for something your ancestors have done. Homosexuality would be a sin, and you would be stoned to death for "choosing to live like that".

I'm sorry if this you're offended, but this is how I think it would be if the bible was true.

Edit:
Also, some of you said you don't think the world could exist if there was no god. Some people think the world could not exist if there was a god, since an omnipotent being would not have any reason to create or do anything. It would allready be perfect. Either way, I don't think the existance of the universe depends on the existance of a god.

Well, I asked out of interest. I didn't mean to offend, or make you think that you can't be honest. It was just a simple "what if" scenario. :/

But it's only right that I answer yours. But keep in mind, this isn't something that can be answered without offending someone, but I mean it as a serious answer.

I believe that, under that circumstance, the world would be somewhat as it is under Sharia Law. Maybe without the same amount of corruption, depending on how much God makes his presence felt, but the same kind of rule-of-law.