Homestar Runner Wiki Forum :: View topic - Is it ever justifiable to use a racial epithet against...

Only if you're non-white.

what if a black guy (that same guy, for instance) approached me in a bullying manner and called me a f**got? Would I be justified in replying,"Porch monkey!"?

I posted this on IMDb...the general consensus was that it would be acceptable.

You see, when a black rapper makes a song saying to screw the white man, that they would kill the white man if they had a chance, and go on to rap about how they would kill him, Its called artistic expression.

But when a white man says "Hey honey, come see what this nigger is rapping about!", its a hate crime.

Where's the sense in that?

that they would kill the white man if they had a chance, and go on to rap about how they would kill him

I think racial slurs should never be used, unless quoting someone else. So, no.

What's interesting, I think, is that it seems many people would say that it's OK to reply in kind if they insult you, but that if it's a matter of racial epithets, you must turn the other cheek or limit your replies to other insults.

*Indeed, after he launched on his rant, they yelled back "cracker", "honky", etc. I've never heard anyone criticize them for this, probably because hardly anyone really minds, given what they were replying to...

The problem (if you can call it that), really, is that there is no word (that I know of) for white people that is fully equivalent to "nigger" in its level of offense*. Ultimately, though, either one is a racial epithet (and I'm not really keen on the notion that one isn't as bad merely because it was used by the opressed...), so I think the hecklers' response to Kramer's rant should be judged on that basis. If we imagine that there were a white N-word, and that the black hecklers had used it, I could hardly say that they had done anything wrong.

Can we say the N-word on this forum?

Out of pure curiosity, how many african-american people are there on this forum? Are there any?

Author:	lahimatoa [ Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:36 pm ]
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Only if you're non-white.

Author:	Jello B. [ Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:49 pm ]
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lahimatoa wrote: Only if you're non-white. Lulz.

Author:	PianoManGidley [ Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:57 pm ]
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It just brings you down to their level of inane insults. Some people don't really believe in the old saying that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." The truth is that words don't hurt you unless you want them to. I've learned that I don't have to necessarily justify myself to other people, especially if they've already made up their minds about me or what I do or what I am or what I like. I don't need the approval of someone else just for me to live and enjoy my life, especially not someone so obviously full of hate and prejudice. I already know that there are plenty of people close to me who love me and accept me without conditions, so if one other member of the world's growing population doesn't want to be on my friend's list, I don't care. Now, if they start getting physically violent, then yes, I'll push back and do whatever it takes to defend myself. But epithets are just a coward's punch and an idiot's kick. They don't physically harm me, and I've gotten to the point where they don't emotionally harm me, either. To play devil's advocate, though, "hate speech" is often looked down upon because people equate the speech with actions of violence. The general consensus among many Americans (and other members of the world) is that if hate speech is allowed to continue (such as the KKK), then they will continue to boil the blood of enough people that at least one of those people will go out and act violently as a result of those feelings. But should this be a reason to infringe on one of our nation's most cherished freedoms? Do the words inevitably and invariably lead to violence? If everyone acted out on every single moment of anger, we'd have a lot more hospital beds and cemetaries filled up right now. People should have a right to feel angry and to express that anger in ways that are not physically violent...and all people should be held accountable (unless proven mentally ill or otherwise not responsible for their actions) should they go and act on such feelings of hate. If people are denied the right to hate, then they are denied the ability to grow past that hate. Sorry if I breadwiped again...someone toastpaint?

Author:	Amorican [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Is it ever justifiable to use a racial epithet against..
Yeltensic wrote: what if a black guy (that same guy, for instance) approached me in a bullying manner and called me a f**got? Would I be justified in replying,"Porch monkey!"? I posted this on IMDb...the general consensus was that it would be acceptable. So, two wrongs now make a right?

Author:	Simon Zeno [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:18 am ]
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I like to laugh at people offended by words. That usually makes them angrier though

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Is it ever justifiable to use a racial epithet against... http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11627	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Didymus [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:34 am ]
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It seems to me that the real issue behind any racial derision is essentially the hostility involved anyway. In this case, the person in question is openly hostile toward you and using a sexual orientation term. The response of a racial epithet is really no different, although you could argue that your own hostility is in reaction to his. But that in and of itself does not make the use of it right.

Author:	Mike D [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:24 am ]
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I'd advise strongly against that, Yeltsenic. What possible use is there in escalating the situation? Mike

Author:	Einoo T. Spork [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:32 pm ]
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If it were justifiable to do such a thing, Michael Richards would be a lot better off right now.

Author:	Beyond the Grave [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:51 pm ]
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Two wrongs will never make right. So no it's not a good idea.

Author:	Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:58 pm ]
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You see, when a black rapper makes a song saying to screw the white man, that they would kill the white man if they had a chance, and go on to rap about how they would kill him, Its called artistic expression. But when a white man says "Hey honey, come see what this nigger is rapping about!", its a hate crime. Where's the sense in that?

Author:	Exhibit A [ Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:05 pm ]
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: You see, when a black rapper makes a song saying to screw the white man, that they would kill the white man if they had a chance, and go on to rap about how they would kill him, Its called artistic expression. But when a white man says "Hey honey, come see what this nigger is rapping about!", its a hate crime. Where's the sense in that? You're right, it doesn't make any sense. But it's also irrelevant to this conversation. Anyway, acting rude to rude people doesn't solve anything. It's better just to do your best to be polite, and let them make fools of themselves.

Author:	Amorican [ Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:07 am ]
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: that they would kill the white man if they had a chance, and go on to rap about how they would kill him Which song are you referring to, specifically?

Author:	Duecex2 [ Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Is it ever justifiable to use a racial epithet against..
Yeltensic wrote: Porch monkey!"? That reminded me of that scene from Clerks II. Haar. And yes, in my book, that would be hokay. But your asking a whitey suburban kid, which is bad.

Author:	Rocoramore [ Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:48 pm ]
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I think racial slurs should never be used, unless quoting someone else. So, no.

Author:	PianoManGidley [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:42 pm ]
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sci-fi greg wrote: Can we say the N-word on this forum? Looks like we already have, but only out of sheer example, of course. Saying "The N-word" or "n*gger" instead of spelling it outright gets the same point across. I have a few qualms with actually using it outright myself, but only because I'm White, and was therefore raised to be afraid of using it for fear of being labeled a racist. I was raised to see it as being the single worst word I could ever utter--far worse than the F-word.

Author:	PianoManGidley [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:52 am ]
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Don't forget South Africa--lots of Whities there. There was some big to-do, too, when some White girl who was born in South Africa wanted to mark that she was African American in the profile part of the SATs. I think she won, but they had to redesign that segment of the profile for future testing.

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Author:	zirnitra [ Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:18 pm ]
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Porch monkey isn't racist!</clerks>

Author:	ramrod [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:14 am ]
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Rocoramore wrote: I think racial slurs should never be used, unless quoting someone else. So, no. Exactly. Even when used against you, you should not use it. You would be stooping to their level.

Author:	Amorican [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:33 am ]
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Yeltensic wrote: What's interesting, I think, is that it seems many people would say that it's OK to reply in kind if they insult you, but that if it's a matter of racial epithets, you must turn the other cheek or limit your replies to other insults. Basically yeah. I can decide that there is a certain line that I won't cross, even if some moron crosses that line. Yeltensic wrote: *Indeed, after he launched on his rant, they yelled back "cracker", "honky", etc. I've never heard anyone criticize them for this, probably because hardly anyone really minds, given what they were replying to... There is a very big difference between "the N word" and "cracker." One was used to dehumanize an entire race of people, and keep them in their place, below the superior white man. The other a defense mechanism to fight back against the people who were enslaving, beating, whipping, segregating, lynching, church-bombing, fire-hosing, and generally keeping them oppressed. I think the word "honky" came much later, but the same deal. All these terms have outlived their usefulness, and it's not right for either one to be used. However, I am far less outraged when I hear the word "cracker" being used than "nigger."

Author:	Amorican [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:07 am ]
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Yeltensic wrote: The problem (if you can call it that), really, is that there is no word (that I know of) for white people that is fully equivalent to "nigger" in its level of offense. Ultimately, though, either one is a racial epithet (and I'm not really keen on the notion that one isn't as bad merely because it was used by the opressed...), so I think the hecklers' response to Kramer's rant should be judged on that basis. If we imagine that there were a white N-word, and that the black hecklers had used it, I could hardly say that they had done anything wrong. There is a real reason why there is no real equivalent to the N-Word for white people. You can't separate these kinds of words from the history that brought about the words. Even black use of the N-Word has its own history which must be examined before getting outraged that "they can use words that I can't." It may not be "fair," but that's the way it is. "Cracker" is never going to get the reaction that "nigger" does, even though both are wrong. And I don't think it should. *separate or seperate? I don't know. But honestly I really just wanted to use footnotes the way you do.

Author:	sci-fi greg [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:35 pm ]
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Can we say the N-word on this forum?

Author:	ramrod [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:24 pm ]
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sci-fi greg wrote: Can we say the N-word on this forum? It depends on the situation. Saying it as an insult will earn you in big trouble. Quoting it, or using it in a sentence where it is not meant as an insult, like in this thread, is fine, but we rather you self-censor the word.

Author:	OneGyT [ Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:38 pm ]
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This is similar to what someone I know said about the Michael Richards controversy, something like, "I feel sorry for other black people, but not for the hecklers," which at the time I thought to be a little hokey. I'm not totally sure about it now, though. I think I agree with PMG that it's sinking down to their level as well as being in the mindset of "Two wrongs make a right."

Author:	sci-fi greg [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:00 pm ]
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Yeah, I kind of understand that only black people can say the n-word, but I hate when black people say the n-word but than criticize white people for saying black. If they can call us white, we can call them black. Out of pure curiosity, how many african-american people are there on this forum? Are there any?

Author:	Einoo T. Spork [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:35 pm ]
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sci-fi greg wrote: Out of pure curiosity, how many african-american people are there on this forum? Are there any? Well, there's Alberto, so that's at least one. We don't seem to have a lot of African-Americans on this forum, though. At least, as far as I can tell.

Author:	DESTROY US ALL! [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:48 pm ]
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sci-fi greg wrote: Out of pure curiosity, how many african-american people are there on this forum? Are there any? Umm why wouldn't there be any people of African decent who aren't American as well? I absolutely hate that term. If you want to avoid saying "Black" just say African, not every person who's skin is dark is African or American. Not African American He's Jamaican.

Author:	Beyond the Grave [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 pm ]
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By saying describing a black person as African just means that they are of Africa descent. It's just like someone describing me as Polish or Irish. I am of both Polish and Irish descent. And as for you question Greg, I think Clever Danielle has some black in her and I believe Alberto is black.

Author:	Amorican [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:09 am ]
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As far as I have observed, "black" or "African-American" doesn't really matter. I have personally never heard my black friends have any sort of resentment for either of these terms. They usually self-identify with the word "black". The only times I've ever heard them use the term "African-American" is when they are talking to white people they don't know very well. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but sometimes it seems to me* that they don't want to offend or scare off white people by not using the PC term. *I am only speaking from my personal relationships with and observations of the black people in my life from my perspective as a white dude, and in no way is meant to represent the the actual personal views of the black population as a whole or any particular individuals.