Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Y'know, this is reminding me of that one George Carlin thing I watched on Youtube a few days ago...

If I'm hearing this right, you don't like the education system because you are being forced to learn things that you don't want to learn. Well, isn't that what electives in school are for? I can't say that there's an elective for every subject out there, but I'm pretty sure that there's ones at least relating to the subjects you're interested in. Of course, I'm an idiot, and chose an elective that I don't even care about (debate, wha?) instead of something that I do care about, like art or journalism, but that's life.

Also, besides the electives, it's always good to learn core subjects, such as math and English, even if you don't have to use all of the information provided to you. Plus, you may change your mind on your future career a little down the line. Some of those concepts taught to you that seemed like crap before may become of more importance with a different job idea.

I guess your opinions on education can also go off of the teachers you've had. I've had a wide variety of teachers, though most of them actually told us numerous facts that were quite interesting that weren't required for the standardized tests. Some of them even told us stories from their life regularly in-between lessons, and used their other talents to help us remember things better (i.e. one of my 6th teachers was also a cartoonist, so he drew a man named "Icabod" for a lesson about adding and subtracting negative numbers to help us remember how it works out). This livened up the experience a bit, though I haven't really thought of education being bland too often; I only dislike some aspects of the homework, but that's just because I'm slow.


Yes, this is what my brother did, and he turned out perfectly fine as the manager of a department in an Apple store. However, he just recently quit due to some issues with higher authorities in the job, or something like that.

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I've never been a fan of compulsory education myself... actually, back in high school I had pretty much the exact same attitude as Wes. The current system could stand to be greatly improved, it's true. Much of school is pointless repetition of the same material in a way that infuriates the more gifted and/or dedicated students. But you have to be realistic with yourself, Wes: if you were free of school, would you really use that freedom to better yourself even more than school would? I thought so. While I didn't drop out of school (almost did...), I chose not to go to college because I thought I would use my time better. Instead, I spent my time playing video games because my parents were too nice to me so I didn't feel any pain from my laziness. School isn't the only issue, your parents definitely need to set up the right environment to replace school. If you're not going to school, your parents need to treat you like an independent person so you actually have the incentive to get off your butt. Because if they're making life too comfortable for you, you most likely won't, no matter how much you think you will or want to.

For most youths, though, this current system does work best. And if your parents aren't going to create the proper environment for you, it'd be best if you just try to make the best of the government schools.

What it looks like you should look into, if your parents will help you, is "unschooling". Pick up The Teenage Liberation Handbook. If you actually do the the things it says instead of using your free time to goof off, you'll turn out fine. You're right about that GED thing, it's kind of a loophole. I advocate that for any halfway intelligent person who can't stand going to school. You can actually drop out of school and end up going to college a year early; though it'd be better if you drop out of school and use that extra year to see what it's like to try to get by with a job in the real world. Then, when you go to college at the same time as your peers, you'll have an added perspective on how things really work that your sheltered classmates won't have. And you'll do much better in school for it, and be more likely to know what actually interests you instead of going through a major just to realize you hate it.

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ATTN: LOWER BOARD USERS HAVE MOVED TO ANOTHER FORUM. COME JOIN THE FUN!

This is my life.

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Yes, that Jello, he is always infuriating the more gifted...

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I agree with what Teff said. If kids in school were given time for psychological benefit and only going to school for an hour, I can estimate that we wouldn't have an increased number of rocket scientists, we'd have kids that are better at Guitar Hero or something.

I don't really find school a problem - it's a social environment, giving me PLENTY of psychological help (because my friends are that - friends.) and still teaches you what you need to know to be successful later in life.

Or, y'know, you could end up being employee of the month at McDonalds. I guess it's your call.

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I'm on the fence when it comes to compulsory education. It's true: most of the stuff you learn is indeed crap that you'll never need again. But if I were never forced to learn three years of a foreign language in high school, I wouldn't speak Spanish like I would now. But then, most other people who take Spanish in high school never pick it back up again. I nearly didn't, myself. Still, odds are that something you didn't want to learn will come back to you later, and you'll appreciate it a lot more than you did in school.

- Kef

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I don't have a beef with education. I just have a beef with being made to have one. It hurts people. Some people could do better getting real world experience than learning stuff they will never use. And some people work perfectly in the environment we have.

I just hate being forced to do stuff. It's not that I wouldn't do stuff, it's just that I'm made to do it. I would probably get an education if I wasn't forced to go, and if a teacher were crappy to me, I could leave and go to a different school.

Also, Inverse, I've heard of unshooling, and I personally think it would be the best way to get an education for anybody.

Also, the only choice in a private school I have is that Christian Academy. My parents considered homeschooling me for a time, but decided against it. So I'm stuck here, at a public school.

Also Didymus, there are inconsistencies in the Bible. Not just with the New and Old Testaments, but within the New Testament. Personally, I will try to find my own way in life and rely on the book as a reference guide. If I can't come up with an answer to questions within my thoughts, I will refer to the book.

Let me quote from the Bible to justify what I say:
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The way I see it, we shouldn't be made to do this, for this commands us not to be entangled in bondage. I see this as bondage. No matter if it may be for "our own good" or be as bad as some brave people say it is. You shouldn't force human beings to do things, it goes against the principle of liberty.

Let me say this as a final question: What makes a person any different from the day before her 16th birthday to the day after her 18th birthday? How is that person more or less capable of choosing to be in school or not be in school?

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They just are.
Same way someone is incapable of handling alcohol before their 21st b-day but is totally capable the second they turn 21.
It's because the courts say so.

I'd like to tell you there's some REAL reason, but there isn't. It's because the courts say so.
That's just how it goes.

You're better off learning though. Education never hurt anyone. Just suck it up and take it, man. When you get out of high school, you can feel free to do whatever you want to do. Just don't expect any employer to take you seriously without a degree. Again, it's an arbitrary requirement, and there are those without degrees who are more qualified than those with them, but that's how the world works.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Just because some courts say something doesn't mean it's a good reason. It just means that the police are entitled to enforce it. Some people may say that's a good reason, I say it's tyranny.

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Well, you're certainly entitled to feel that way, but it doesn't make it right.

The courts' upholding it, however, is based on the interpretation of the constitution by people well versed in constitutional law.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I hate it as much as you do, but the courts say such things because they don't like to leave matters up to discretion. And there's a very good reason for that: lawyers will do everything they can to bend "discretion" to their favor, and neither judges nor juries are always free of bias. So there are pretty good motivations for drawing hard lines where none really exist. On the whole, it makes things easier and more fair than if the lines weren't drawn, even though it can easily cause you to get the short end of the stick.

- Kef

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You know we do have a thread for discussing these so-called "inconsistencies", and I do not recall you ever raising any questions there. So far, no one has raised any questions that haven't been answered. Rather than making such a broad generalized claim about "inconsistencies," why don't you present me with some that I can examine? Otherwise, you cannot expect me to accept your unsupported claim.

But in my line of work, I encounter lots of well-meaning Christians who think they know better than God's own messengers what's good for them, and they usually end up regretting the choices they make.


You might want to read that passage in context, Wes. St. Paul is not speaking of civil liberty here, but liberty from bondage to the Jewish religious codes. In fact, the vast majority of times that the New Testament speaks of liberty, it is speaking of liberty either from the bondage of sin, or from those Jewish religious codes, and not of civil liberty. It helps to study the entire passage. Elsewhere, St. Paul commends people to obey and respect those in authority over them, including civil leaders. Picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you want to believe without studying it in its entirety is not the best way to understand it.


I don't see it as bondage. I see it as the state exercising its responsibility as a state to direct people's lives for their own benefit. You may of your own accord say that you would educate yourself if given the choice, but if even if that's true, the vast majority of people wouldn't. And so eliminating compulsory education would essentially become a license for promoting ignorance, which we already have a big enough problem with to begin with. Such widespread ignorance would be a drain on our society's resources - resources that are paid for by my taxes, as well as those paid by your parents.

And guess what: states always have to make people do what they don't want to do. I don't want to pay taxes. But guess what! I do. Get used to it.

But here's the key question for you right now: you say that given the choice, you would choose education. If that's the case, then what are you complaining about?


My answer to that question is three-fold: (1) presumably, the 18 year old has two more years of education and life experience such that they might actually be more informed to make life decisions. (2) the 18 year old has probably either completed or has nearly completed their educational requirements. And (3) by the standards of our legal system, an 18 year old is a legal adult, whereas a 16 year old is not. You may think that two years of experience, education, and maturity is arbitrary (and for some people - those of lesser intelligence - it might just be), but we as a society consider that additional two years to be of consequence.

Oh, and while in your particular circumstance, alternate educational methods may not be convenient, the fact is the law itself still allows for them. It is your choice - or more precisely, your parents - whether they wish to pursue alternate means of education. So in the end, no one has actually put a gun to your head and forced you to go to public school. Your parents made that choice, as is their right as your legal guardians.

And why is it their right? Because ultimately, it is their resources that go to paying for your education, and for that matter, your food, clothing, shelter, etc. If you do not agree with their decision, then my suggestion to you would be to move out on your own, get a job, and pay for your education yourself.

So while you may love invoking this comparison between public education and, say, the gulags of Russia, in the end, it is only that: empty rhetoric.

The only reason you object to compulsory education is because you end up having to do something you don't like. Well guess what: life is full of that, so get used to it. You have a responsibility to your community as a citizen to be educated and to live by civil laws. Don't like it? The only way to escape it is to either kill yourself or go live in a cave on a mountain somewhere. And I'm not saying that to be mean. It's just the simple truth: if you wish to enjoy the benefits of our society (including the freedoms it offers), then you do have to submit to the laws of our society; and the only way around it is to leave society completely.

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In my school, we have 7 electives to choose from. This would be fine, if it weren't for the fact that 3 of them have to be related to math, science and history. If I'm reading that right. And with the "Excel diploma" (taking 2 foriegn language courses and passing every single class), that means that a person could be confined to as little as 2 electives they can freely choose from. I myself wanted to get all four classes of Art, but out of some thing I can't understand, I might have three or even two.

But I fully agree with the againsters. Let's face it: school can make someone go down a road of perceived glory when it in fact can ruin them on the inside.

I was in school since I was 3 (preschool, where I was pretty happy and perceived other children as friends) and was unknowingly subject to a special class for half of a full school day, when I could easily have gotten half. I thought that I was smart, since I was in this extra class. So, I made it my duty to try my best. In 1st grade, I was in an advanced spelling thingy. It was then I felt I shouldn't associate with "commoners" (the rest of the class). I managed to guess the closest number of mini M&M in a plastic duck jar in 2nd grade. At that time, I started to feel that school lasted too long and I knew everything. I knew what history meant in 3rd when my peers didn't. It was also at that point when I was enrolled in a gifted program. I was enthralled. When 4th grade came along, I was in it again. But I felt the pressure. Homework was starting to dominate my home life and the gifted program was burdening me with extra work I could both care less about. However, I felt forced to do it anyway. Eventually, it got someone's attention that I wasn't supposed to be in the gifted program. I found this an opportunity, but instead lost some of my identity. I also started to feel that classes wer repetitive and boring, and therefore started doing below my expectations. 5th grade came, and I found myself in band. It was really boring, and I wondered why my mom brainwashed me into it until after 6th grade.

Did I ever mention that 6th grade was like a terrible taste of what Superheck had to offer and therefore deserves its own paragraph? For starters, I had a math teacher that literally would yell at us for not understanding something as a class. I forgot my homework, and I felt guilty about it. Therefore, I began to cry. Instead of the usual emotional support I got the past 5 or 6 years, I just got a "Stop it.". I know it was me. She said my name. I then got a hard dose of the fact that people may simply don't care and I should deal with it. She was a yelly teacher, and I tended to cry from fright or guilt up until then. Since I could get yelled at for being rightfully (though maybe out of proportionally) upset, I realized I had to hold it in. While it gave me solace that I managed to keep quiet for a change, it eventually turned into self-hate. That I was a wuss because I happened to be hypersensitive. Homework became such a burden at this point as well. On one hand, I didn't felt like I had to prove some useless facts for the thousandth time, but on the other hand, wanted to keep my identity. So, it took virtually every measure possible to make sure I did all of it everyday. Having school form 8:30 to 3:00 doesn't sound much, but homework from 3 to 10 is. I practically goofed off half the time by fiddling with erasers and stuff since I wanted to do something better with my time. On top of that, there were six perceived bullies (4 happened to be jerks, and the fifth I'm on good terms now) in gym class. I would always have my self-esteem stamped on two days a week, and I even snitched a few times, but to no effect. Even though he's at some other school now, I loathe him to the point where if I ever see his face again, I would literally smash it in. In fact, I recently had a dream where I saw him and kicked him in the crotch. However, I got beaten pretty hard. Then, I had to deal with being on lunch patrol in the same special class for three days a week. I was glad at first, since I now had something to do instead of nothing for recess, but my germphobia got kicked into high gear. I wasn't socialable (I'm naturally that way), and felt like I did a bad job in the end. And there was band, which I didn't care about. And there was the fear that middle school would be full of drugs and bullies. Now, however, I think that some drugs were completely focused on negative aspects instead of potential medical aspects, and therefore a form of urban legends. Didn't you study health class? You'll microwave the baby!

[s]Urban legends[/s] I mean health class

Mix that all together and I had a breakdown in school. I thought I was consoled, but in fact my problems were passed off as having too much homework, which was part of the problem. The main one was what was the point of doing something over and over again, the bullying going on, the yelling teacher, not doing well in lunch patrol. I realized that nothing could be done and was helpless to do anything about it. And let's face it; learned helplessness is rarely, if ever, good. Ironically, it was also around that time that I had my first period. Didn't want it to happen ever, but it did. Panicked and wanted to believe that it was something else. Didn't work. So, it also kind of enforced the helplessness I felt growing on me.

Middle school came by and my germphobia led me to wear ridiculous, oversized tartans. But I entered feeling I could do nothing about anything except being the smartest. However, that felt thwarted by my inability to understand algebra. Everything was given to me so fast and I couldn't retain anything to the point that I mostly got D's and F's on mmy tests during middle school. Yet, I got a B since I did my homework. Or at least tried to. I had to redo many papers, and having a ton of homework piling up you can't understand can be stressful and demoralizing. Then, there was the phobia of a certain word. I was given no warning, but when I saw it, I was shocked. So, I couldn't read most of the novels I had to since it included that word and whenever I read it would get me into a nauseous stupor. Thankfully, now while I can read it without that horrible reaction anymore, I still have the mental censor to write it. But imagine trying to stumble through worksheets and questions about the book when you're too scared to even open it, since you know that there might be a chance of basically becoming stupefied for an hour. There was also social expectancies that I tried to avoid by showing indifference. In truth, That teacher is not a pedophile, that teacher isn't gay, that teacher may or may not wear a diaper, but why should I make fun of what might be a health problem, and so on. Rules were also feeling ridiculously strict and very, very unfair. In a way, a few people messing around and therefore having the administration not having us have nice things. I also felt like I had to respect everyone, no matter who or if they're torturing me in some way. This happend in 8th grade, when the vice principal started yelling at us since one student happened to push some adult. For all we know, he might've been late to class and didn't want to get punished. No good reason, I know, but he wasn't trying to hurt anyone. And this was yelling completely disproportionate to the situation, and since I "couldn't" cry, you can see where that led.

So, I reached high school. I thought I was in the clear, where I could start experiencing freedom. At this point I was close to broken completely and could at least have some relief after my years of hard work. Sadly, it didn't happen. Gained confidence throughout choir that first term, but was knocked down in an instant. We were tired, and I knew it wasn't the best we could do at that time. Still, I felt useless and a disgrace. Meanwhile, I was overworked in one particular class since I had very high expectations by the teacher (basically his pet). I didn't like the yelling in another class and felt nervousness since the core of the yelling was always there. Not even the one other class had full contentment, since many people thought of her as a weirdo. I did, however, go my confidence in math again. But only because I repeated them. But at that point it became clear that I wouldn't be the smartest. My identity shattered. Eventually, it came to a point where medical resistance (lol, sp) was needed. Couldn't go on with the same crap day in and day out until school ended for good for me, only to work at a dead end office job I didn't want to go into in the first place.

Sophmore year, we had ID tags. I eventually got the feeling that we were nothing more than dogs to the administration and were expected to obey every little thing. What's worse is that they were made for the purpose of our school fitting in with the others. And from then on, the noose of ridiculous rules got tighter and tighter. I would also start falling asleep in chemistry class unintentionally, since not caring about it was clearly overpowering my will to simply shut up and do it.

And that's the full story why I hate school. Note I didn't say I hate learning. I love learning. It's what made me happy in the first few years before I noticed the repetitiveness. However, school has made that curiosity so dulled that I never want to learn anything, even if it's relevant to what I want to do in life. But, normally before school starts, I have that curiosity come again. I can feel the want to learn. However, by that time I have to continue with school. In a way, school has gotten me to a bad start and could potentially ruin my life. I realize now just how detrimental school is when it comes to my well-being. I barely have friends, literally no real life social network, and helplessness of being someone else's subordinate for life. Then again, school made me feel that academics were more important than friends, when they could be the most important thing I could need.

I could have turned out a completely different, confident person IF I had some other form of schooling where I could go at my own pace, felt like a human and equal to my "teachers", and could learn the things that matter most to me. If it wasn't for the confidence that was taken from me from before, I would quit public school and go for the other methods that could work for many, many students for years to come.

This is obviously a type as I went post. I mean, this is pretty huge. But the story of my school life pretty much can show the detrimental effects school has that can literally rape an entire person's mentality. Of course, this is the story of one student.

There can be many happy, productive students instead of any of the other three combinations if needless compulsory education was rid of. I'm not saying no more school. I'm saying a better school. And might as well make sure students have the skills to make sentences and balance their accounts. I'll be honest. After all, basics are necessary for anyone.

And Didymus, stop being harsh on Wes. I hate school, even though I love learning. He does, too. What I'm guessing both of us want is to be educated in what we want to be educated in, instead of pointless, repetitive, and boring work. It may have worked when education was a luxury, but not in this day and age. While I don't think the situation may change in 10 or 20 years, I just hope and know that one day there will be an education system that is clearly in the correct century instead of the first. And I always believe in the worst.

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There is one major problem I have with Wes' rhetoric. He is essentially equating public education with a Chinese sweat shop or a gulag. He calls it oppression. My response is that, at best, such terminology is a gross exaggeration. 6 hours of school is not "hard labor." Working in a sweat shop for 20 hours a day - that's hard labor.

As already pointed out, there are alternate forms of education available, including private school, home schooling, GED, etc. So in reality, we are not talking about whether alternate forms are acceptable, legal, or available. We are discussing whether education itself should be required. My contention, as an adult who has experienced life in the real world, is that education is not real oppression of any sort - wait until you get into the job market, you'll wish you had it so good! But without compulsory education, I think the vast majority of people would simply choose to remain ignorant and never learn anything. And such a situation would be detrimental to the resources of our nation - resources which my taxes go to pay - I believe that we as a nation have not only the right, but the responsibility to require our citizens to be given at least a minimum of education.

In life, you will always be required to do things you don't like. And some of those things - like paying taxes, doing jury duty, enrolling in Selective Service - are required by law. And such duties and responsibilities do follow you well into adulthood, regardless.

Perhaps it would benefit both of you to read about the theory of Social Contract. In a nutshell, it comes down to this: if you wish to enjoy the benefits of society, you have to fulfill your responsibilities as a citizen. And one of those responsibilities is to become educated so that you can contribute positively to society, rather than being a drain on our resources.

If Wes wanted to contribute positive ways in which the current education system could be improved, that would be productive. But that is not what he is contributing. Furthermore, by resorting to his "oppression" rhetoric (essentially equating school with a gulag), he is essentially sidestepping his responsibility to present sound reason for his claims. My suggestion is that, if he wishes to have a meaningful conversation on this subject, he dispense with the rhetoric and present his case in a convincing manner.

Oh, and I'm not denying that people have problems in school. I had my problems in grade school, all the way up to high school. But, as stated before, this is grounds for finding ways to improve education, not dispensing with it altogether.

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These words define basically what everybody's saying.

also, public school isn't always bad. Mine's actually good, so quit your stereotyping.

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My point exactly.

To be honest, though, I never would have found interesting books if it weren't for school.

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tl;dr x 5.

Anyway, I'm fine with compulsory education. it has it's moments. If you never went to a public school, you've missed out on a lot.

And what was that word you were talking about, Chicken?

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Truth x 2

I don't see anything wrong with the way school works, it's just something you have to do.

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From what I gather here, private school isn't all it's knocked up to be, either. I think I can safely say there's at least one well-known forum butt that went to a private school.

Of cors that's stereotyping but I STILL STAND

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The n- one. Seriously, it completely crept up on me at the wrong time.

Heck, even I thought of the post as tl;dr myself!

I think that while a new, better, and more beneficial version of compulsory education will not be in my future, I just hope that it'll happen someday. For now, I'll have the school survival guide and have the power to raise some awareness. Might not be in my future, but it won't be in anyone's unless the people of today act.

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I'm equaling it to a sweatshop because, well, we're being forced to do things just like the people in the sweatshop. It may not be horrible work for me, but they still get paid. Listen, it's an infringement on rights to force people to do things like that. I also don't have any responsibility to my country, no matter what your closed minded nationalism may tell you. I have a obligation to my God, first and foremost, others, and myself. In that order. I do not have any responsibility to a country that forces me to have the same cookie cutter, substandard, education as everyone else. No matter where I go in this state I will still have to know the curriculum. No matter where I go in this country I will still have to know a curriculum. The same taught in the schools!

I, for one, would rather life in the AIDS ridden, drought consumed, parts of Africa as long as I could have the freedoms that all human beings deserved.

I also assert that public schooling, especially the compulsory kind, is one of the most blatant influences of communism on our country. It's state run, the most dominant, and people are forced to go there unless they can find an alternative. Not to mention it's parental crack. It lets our parents dump us on the schools and they don't have to put up with us. What's to keep the state from raising us from birth, with their own brainwashing, as long as the parents consent.

These schools make lazy parents and ignorant children. No doubt about it in my mind.

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Yes you do. Just because you're a closed-minded libertarian who refuses to acknowledge those responsibilities doesn't change that fact. You have an obligation because you take up space here, because you consume resources which this country generates, and because you breathe the air here. If you don't believe that, then I would challenge you to break any law - steal something, for example - and see if you don't end up facing the consequence of that law. As stated above, the very fact that you consent to live in this nation is acquiescence to this nation's laws, rules, and expectations. Deny them in your mind if you wish, but in truth, the only way to escape them is to leave.


Yes, but as I already pointed out, part of your obligation to God is to live as a good citizen of this nation. I do not recall God ever saying that it was okay to defy civil law, except in cases where that civil law demands disobedience to him. In fact, as already stated, in Romans 13, God does in fact command you to obey those in authority over you. Do disobey civil law (with the one exception of the case where civil law demands disobedience to God) is to disobey God.

Furthermore, you still miss the point. You do have an obligation to others. And that includes the people of your local community, your state, and your nation. To deny your obligations as a citizen is to fail in your responsibility to others.


Then move there. I won't stop you. Right now. Pack your bags and go. If you hesitate for a single moment, then you prove that you don't have the resolve you claim. In fact, why are you still reading this? You should already be on the plane.


Once again, you're resorting to empty rhetoric without making a valid argument. Public school is not Communism. And it's not brainwashing, either. Please dispense with using the empty rhetoric and try to make a valid case from here on out, please.

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Having graduated a public high school, I fail to see how it equates to working in a sweatshop. It's 6-7 hours a day of reading books, listening to teachers, and taking notes, with passing periods and lunch between classes. That's pretty cozy compared to, say, sewing soccer balls together in Pakistan for 7 cents an hour, 12 hours a day.

And don't forget Matthew 22:15-22:


There's also Martin Luther's "Two kingdoms" doctrine. Basically, God rules the earthly kingdom through secular government through the law (Genesis 9:6 and Exodus 21:14), and the Kingdom of God through His grace.

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As far as that goes, Wes, you're reading anti-authoritarianism into the Bible when it is not there. In the New Testament, when St. Paul commends people not to submit to the Law, he is not speaking of civil law, but of Jewish religious law. Incidentally, there's a reason why: in the First Century, the Jews of that time (particularly the Pharisees) not only expected absolute obedience to the Torah, but also to various customs and traditions that they had added to the Torah.

When the Gentiles began to follow Christ, there were some Jewish Christians who objected. In response, they began telling the Gentiles that they also were obligated to observe Jewish traditions and customs. What's more, they were teaching these Gentiles that their eternal hope hinged on their observance of these practices, and not on the forgiveness of Christ. It is in response to this that St. Paul and the other apostles opposed the imposition of Jewish practices on Gentile Christians, and instructed them to refrain from them. This is the Law that St. Paul is referencing in Galatians 5 (go back and read 4 so you get the full picture). He is not speaking of civil law at all.

On the contrary, St. Paul and the other apostles do instruct Christians that they are to obey those in authority over them, including civil authorities. The only exception is when civil authorities demand direct disobedience to God, and in those cases, the Christians are to obey God rather than man. But otherwise, Christians are to be good citizens of their state and obey civil law.

In summary:
1. The Galatians passage is referring to imposition of Jewish religious Law on Gentile Christians.
2. It is not referring to civil law at all.
3. Elsewhere, St. Paul commends Christians to obey those in authority, including civil authorities.
4. The only exception is when such laws directly contradict one's obedience to God.

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It doesn't equate to a sweatshop, but it makes you work against your will like one.

I just don't think it's right to force people to do stuff like that. Is it such a big deal to believe that? I'd like to see it changed where school wasn't compulsory. I don't believe in things like that being compulsory. I think it's reflective of a view that minors are inferior to adults. That isn't true. It's an infringement on people's rights to make them do that.

Not mention the schooling we get here isn't very good and we'll only remember 20% of it on average anyway.

No it isn't a sweatshop, no it isn't that evil Nazi dude's concentration camps. I'm happy for that, because if it was than I would have probably already committed suicide if I had any hope left in me.

I'm sorry for using bad comparisons in my effort to communicate an idea. Can you ever forgive me?

In closing: I think since I live in a democracy it is my obligation to take part in the democratic process and try to change things that I see need changed. And I think the Bible BACKS UP THAT CLAIM through what you just told me. A democracy was made to exercise the will of the people.

*I really don't think I did a good job of explaining my view in that last paragraph. I think you might get the gist of it though.

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First, off, I don't know where YOU go to school, but I have NEVER been forced to do work at school. Granted, if you don't do your work, you'll get a bad grade, but that's hardly "forcing" you.
Do you honestly think it'll get any better later?
If you don't do your work at school, you get a bad grade. If I don't do my work at my job, I don't have a place to live, food to eat, or clothes to wear.

[my social-economic conservative side comes out] Secondly, if school weren't compulsory, a lot of kids would never go. This means I would have to give them more of MY money that EARNED, just because they wanted to stay home, didn't get an education, and are now unable to get a job. *locks social-economic conservative up*

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

People like that shouldn't expect society's support.

And who's to say the kids would make the choice on where and if they go to school, I was under the impression that parents made choices like that. The fact is a parent knows the kid more than a teacher ever could and could see what kind of education they need, or if they need one at all. Some people would do best if they just went right to work to get an on-the-job learning experience, and some would do good in the schools we have now(if at all possible). Just because people don't have a formal education doesn't mean they don't have an education.

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If their parents could see more than a teacher could, your parents decided to put you where you are. Until you're 18, they decide these things for you. Now the fact that you can even step ONTO a forum and use relatively well grammar shows that it's working.

Plain and simple. When you're 18, you'll get to choose where to go to college. Just enjoy stuff like this now.

And yes, it is "at all possible" to be good in school. Sweet Brian Boitano...

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Normally I don't bother to correct simple grammar mistakes on a forum, but that one's just too ironic. ("Good" is the adjective; "well" is the adverb.)

- Kef

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See? This man probably went to public school!

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