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 Post subject: Particle Accelerator Moral Issues
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:08 pm 
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since this subject has been nearly as touchy (but less publicised) as abortion recently, I thought it deserved at thread.

Short version of DRAMA: as with particle accelerators, there have been a lot of safety concerns about the Large Hadron Collider currently under construction in Switzerland. The main one, at least, the one I have heard most people talking about, is the possibility of a black hole forming. Sounds a little crazy, you may say that there isn't enough matter in the earth to form a black hole. But yeah, a micro black hole may form.

What is your opinion on this? Is researching theoretical physics really worth risking an, again theoretical, doomsday? Should the fate of the earth really be in humanities hands?

I for one am not worried. This probably won't even happen, and if it does, the black hole will hopefully vanish thanks to Hawking radiation.

If the theory for Hawking radiation is correct.

Oh, or God will save us.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:16 pm 
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I think the term "micro black hole" is a bit misleading. Black holes in space are essentially singularities (that is, a huge quantity of matter - usually the mass of a giant star - crammed into a single point in space, with essentially infinite density and huge gravitational fields).

However, even if this particle accelerator were to create a singularity, the amount of matter that could be compressed into a singularity would be fairly limited, and most likely would not cause the amount of gravitational pull that a black hole in space would. Such a singularity, though it would be extremely dense like a black hole, would not have sufficient matter to cause such gravitational phenomena.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
Such a singularity, though it would be extremely dense like a black hole, would not have sufficient matter to cause such gravitational phenomena.

And thus I'm not worried.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:34 pm 
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And, if Hawking Radiation isn't correct and doomsday is all up on us, Stephen Hawking himself will stop the hole by his infinite knowledge trumping infinite density. :D

I'm sure there's nothing to worry about, though. There just isn't enough matter on Earth that can make a threatening black hole. Not even the Sun could be black hole worthy.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:49 pm 
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ChickenLeg wrote:
I'm sure there's nothing to worry about, though. There just isn't enough matter on Earth that can make a threatening black hole. Not even the Sun could be black hole worthy.

lol way to repeat what's in the first post.

Of course, if you have a black hole made out of all the matter on earth, it can't be threatening, because the earth has already been absorbed by a black hole.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:06 pm 
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No, I don't think theoretical physics is worth risking Doomsday over, unless doing so would be the only way to avoid another Doomsday scenario... but I doubt this particle accelerator thing is really dangerous. These things are designed by people who know what they're doing.

Keep in mind that there may be dangers other than black holes here. But I still think they know what they're doing.

- Kef

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:59 am 
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I read that the chance of a black hole forming is like less than one in one trillion or something ridiculously low like that.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:13 am 
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Dark Grapefruit wrote:
I read that the chance of a black hole forming is like less than one in one trillion or something ridiculously low like that.


Yes. So the chances of forming a black hole would literally be an act of God. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:11 am 
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Funkstar wrote:
I for one am not worried. This probably won't even happen, and if it does, the black hole will hopefully vanish thanks to Hawking radiation.

If the theory for Hawking radiation is correct.
Dark Grapefruit wrote:
I read that the chance of a black hole forming is like less than one in one trillion or something ridiculously low like that.
Hawking Radiation Theory VS Murphy's Law. Round 1. DING!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:06 am 
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I do love the ring to "LARGE HADRON ACCELERATOR", though.
I read it as "Large Hardon Accelerator" at first glance.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:09 pm 
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I think this is a "gloom and doom" perpetuated by people who can't find any real reason to oppose the accelerator.

If, by chance, the planet is absorbed by a black hole, I suppose it'll give me a chance to prove my theory that you cannot actually enter a black hole. OR At least we'll get to experience one.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:51 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
I think this is a "gloom and doom" perpetuated by people who can't find any real reason to oppose the accelerator.


People seem to do that a lot. Greenpeace opposing the ITER fusion plant comes to mind. They claimed it has all the problems of nuclear fission (without actually citing any problems) and we should be using solar or wind power instead, since it's clean power we can use now instead of some far-off day in the future. At least, if you don't mind covering the planet with windmills.

- Kef

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:55 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
If, by chance, the planet is absorbed by a black hole, I suppose it'll give me a chance to prove my theory that you cannot actually enter a black hole. OR At least we'll get to experience one.

They only thing we would experience is being ripped atom from atom.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:58 pm 
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furrykef wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
I think this is a "gloom and doom" perpetuated by people who can't find any real reason to oppose the accelerator.


People seem to do that a lot. Greenpeace opposing the ITER fusion plant comes to mind. They claimed it has all the problems of nuclear fission (without actually citing any problems) and we should be using solar or wind power instead, since it's clean power we can use now instead of some far-off day in the future. At least, if you don't mind covering the planet with windmills.

- Kef


Oh, they're for windmills, provided you don't build them near their homes.

I really don't think there's a problem with this accelerator. I mean, these people who are afraid of it were the same people that said the first A-Bomb would cause a chain reaction and destroy the planet and that the first H-Bomb would start a chain reaction and vaporize the ocean.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:06 pm 
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CURSE THOSE CHEAT COMMANDOS!!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:28 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
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CURSE THOSE CHEAT COMMANDOS!!


Them loonies are gonna blow up the ocean!

To be honest, though, I don't see anything wrong with fusion power. With a fission power plant nearby or even in there, there can be infinite power. Provided they figure out how to do that.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:37 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:

8:51 George carlin on "not in my backyard" *Warning, It's George Carlin, so be prepared for swears.*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:47 pm 
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Isn't this something to do with Dr. Octopus's creation?

Because unless we want men with homicidal tentacles on their back it's not a berry good idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:53 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Because unless we want men with homicidal tentacles on their back it's not a berry good idea.

Yesh, becaushe he'sh real and everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadr ... y_concerns

So, up, down, and strange quarks seem to be the main concern beside the black hole.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:30 pm 
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I'm curious, what's the point of a particle accelerator? I don't understand what Wikipedia says.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:16 am 
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DarkSideOfTheSchwartz wrote:
I was expecting a nice little comedian, like that DELIGHTFUL Bob Saget from Full House.

I WAS WRONG!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:24 am 
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lawl, I should have probably put a warning about the language in the other parts of the video. Now, time to toastpaint

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:33 pm 
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Rocoramore wrote:
DarkSideOfTheSchwartz wrote:
I was expecting a nice little comedian, like that DELIGHTFUL Bob Saget from Full House.


Boy, do you want me to show you his Aristocrats? That was asking for it.

Also Bwave, yes, of course Dr. Octopus is real.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:05 pm 
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bwave wrote:

So, up, down, and strange quarks seem to be the main concern beside the black hole.


OH CRAP, I'M MADE OF UP AND DOWN QUARKS!!!!


AAAAaAAAAAAA


In other news, either a) nothing will happen, as is almost certain or b) we all get to die in some of the coolest ways imaginable.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Simon Zeno wrote:
bwave wrote:

So, up, down, and strange quarks seem to be the main concern beside the black hole.


OH CRAP, I'M MADE OF UP AND DOWN QUARKS!!!!


AAAAaAAAAAAA


In other news, either a) nothing will happen, as is almost certain or b) we all get to die in some of the coolest ways imaginable.


I have no imagination.
Please elaborate.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:51 pm 
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Men with robotic tentacles will come to rip you limb from limb.

That or our body parts will all be pulled apart and fly out everywhere which would be kind of cool to watch.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:55 am 
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I've always subscribed to the theory that death by black hole is the coolest way to die. Becoming strange matter would probably also be awesome.

But yeah, the odds of anything happening are so tremendously low. We'll all kill ourselves in global thermonuclear warfare before the LHC blows up the universe.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:07 pm 
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But we certainly won't kill ourselves from Global Warming. The hottest year recorded was in the 30's, so those black and white folks have all the worryin' to do.

MANBEARPIG, however.

I would think that time bomb + volcano + robots = coolest way to die, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:40 pm 
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All I know on this topic came from this site.

I'm not worried. There's almost not chance of a stable black hole showing up, it'd take a while to manifest if it did, and the planet would be destroyed almost instantly. It's not like we'd notice.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:19 pm 
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Shwoo wrote:


That all sounded like paranoid rambling to me.

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