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Gas prices
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12387		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Color Printer [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Gas prices
(This is the first topic I've ever made in R&P. Wow.)

What goes up and up and rarely comes down? Your first guess might be a balloon or a politician's ego, but the real answer is gas prices.* The average gas price where I live is around 2.50 (plus that .9 of a cent, which really adds up) and it definitely wasn't that high 2 or 3 years ago. Gas prices just go up and up as we use it, and it only goes down if we find more or something else really good happens.

Since oil is not renewable in any sense of the word, we better find an alternate source of fuel FAST, otherwise we'll either be paying insane prices for gas or walking on our feet. What do you guys say on the subject?

*However, a politician's ego is very close.
Author:  Didymus [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
It's not the supply that's driving up the gas prices, though. Gas consumption is about the same, if not higher, than it was a few years ago. No, what's driving it is the demand. People rely on fuel to do their jobs, or at the very least, to travel to their jobs, schools, stores, etc. You can't live without it. Heck, even public transit runs on gas, and higher gas prices means higher transit prices. Even groceries cost more, because fuel prices are so high.

I am all for forcing oil companies to use their huge profits (oh, yeah, did I mention that almost every cent they're overcharging us is pure profit?) to fund research and development of more fuel-efficient engines and alternate fuel sources. But that's not happening.

I drove by my favorite gas station today, and gas had gone up 30 cents! 30 cents in one day! This is outrageous, and as a customer, I am furious! Something needs to be done to make these gas companies utilize their profits for development of more economical fuel usage, or lower their prices. Because I, for one, cannot afford to keep paying these hyper-inflated prices at the pump for much longer.
Author:  Wesstarrunner [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Bio-diesel, Ethanol, and hydrogen are all good alternatives. The oil companies just don't want to go down without a fight.
Author:  Color Printer [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:55 am ]
Post subject: 
A gas station near us (that we use quite frequently) went up 11 cents overnight. That's the highest jump we've seen in quite some time.
Author:  Didymus [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Ethanol is used in Missouri. But guess what: the gas still costs the same. To them, ethanol is just a way of cutting the gasoline so they can make more profit off of it.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Just keep in mind the relative value of the dollar, too. Gas may have been 99 cents a gallon in 1989, but if you adjust for inflation, it was actually MORE expensive than it is today.
Author:  Didymus [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:02 am ]
Post subject: 
That may be true for 1989, but not for today.

Gas in 2003 was about 1.25. Then, over a relatively short period of time, prices skyrocketed to around 3.00. They still fluctuate between 2.50 and 3.00, but my point is they fluctuate a heck of a lot, and for apparently no reason. (.30 in one day!! >B( ).

But the other factor is, look at the amount of profit that the oil companies are making.

And another thing to consider: while prices of gas, energy, groceries, etc., continue to climb, the average wage does not climb nearly as fast.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
$2.50 is nothin'. Over here, it's usually over 3 bucks.

But I agree with darn near everything Didymus said on the issue.
Author:  ChickenLeg [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Didymoose wrote:
And another thing to consider: while prices of gas, energy, groceries, etc., continue to climb, the average wage does not climb nearly as fast.


Very true. One of these three price hike areas better leave. Or loosen thier hold. Which is gas.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
My first fill up: I mowed this big field for my grandfather for $20.
With that $20, I think I filled up my car, bought food at McDonald's for myself and a friend. Next morning, I used the rest to buy something to drink on the way to school.


Today: $20 buys enough gas to get to Louisville and back and a Mountain Dew.

It's almost criminal, unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done.

Our state attorney general tried (right before he was about to run for the lieutenant governor's spot on the democratic party's ticket). He found that Ashland-Marathon had gouged consumers to the tune of several million dollars and fined them a whopping 10 grand for it.
Way to go, Greg. You let them make a couple mil and it only cost them 10 grand.
Fortunately, voters saw through that shallow grab for votes.
Author:  Wesstarrunner [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Don't blame the prices solely on the oil companies.
Blame us.
We consume a whole lot. A big bunch. A gargantuan amount compared to everyone else.
These are the main things that I think contribute to this:
*Our consumption as stated above.
*Greedy oil companies home and abroad.
*The majority of the government not wanting to do anything about consumption/ greedy companies.

I could ramble on that if we had a truly free market that the prices would regulate themselves, but I won't because I don't have to.
Author:  Amorican [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
(oh, yeah, did I mention that almost every cent they're overcharging us is pure profit?)


Almost every cent they are overcharging us? I'd think it would be every cent. If the overcharged price is going to anything besides profit, it's not really overcharging.

This is the way I understand business to work: Charge as much as you possibly can so that you maximize profits. Charge too high, and people stop buying. Charge too low, and you'll sell a lot more but you won't make the money you could be. You have to find that exact point on the price scale where you will make the most money. People go to many years of school just to figure out exactly how to do that. To do it well is not easy at all. I wouldn't even attempt it.
You have to keep the shareholders happy by making as much profit as possible, or they're gonna demand changes to your company. If you're the CEO, those changes often come in the form of you being fired. If shareholders become very unhappy, they sell your stock and buy some from the competition that is still willing to make a big stinking profit.

The oil companies aren't doing anything that any other company wouldn't do. In fact, I think current gas prices are still well below the point where demand would fall off significantly. I often wonder if oil companies are actually keeping gas prices artifically lower than they could be charging if they really wanted to maximize profits.
Author:  furrykef [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Amorican wrote:
You have to keep the shareholders happy by making as much profit as possible, or they're gonna demand changes to your company. If you're the CEO, those changes often come in the form of you being fired.


This is the fundamental problem I have with corporations. The way the system is designed, there is basically no way that big business can be anything but a bunch of greedy jerks. People always complain about it, but it's as if they think it's better to try to get the corporations to change and play nicey-nice rather than overhaul our economic system. It's certainly easier (now that's an understatement!), but not better...

- Kef
Author:  bwave [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
We buy bottled water for like 1.00-2.00, and that makes it like $10 a gallon for a substance that makes up a huge percent of our body.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Author:  furrykef [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Who's "we"? I don't touch that stuff.
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
bwave wrote:
We buy bottled water for like 1.00-2.00, and that makes it like $10 a gallon for a substance that makes up a huge percent of our body.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I use Pur filters for my water. The only time I ever pay for bottled water is when I'm on the road and don't have any of my own. And even then, I'll get a gallon at Walmart for 68 cents.

And if you want justification for that, have you ever seen Greenville water? It's the color of weak tea. Yeah, if you lived there, you'd rather pay for bottled water, too.
Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
And if you want justification for that, have you ever seen Greenville water? It's the color of weak tea. Yeah, if you lived there, you'd rather pay for bottled water, too.

Wimp...
Remember what we used to say about the water where I grew up.
If it's brown, chug it down. If it's black, pour it back.

Amorican hit the nail on the head. Oil companies ARE overcharging us, but that's the nature of business. You have to keep prices high enough to maximize profits, but low enough to not curtail sales.

They could probably raise prices even more without losing much in the way of sales. As long as Americans think they have some sort of constitutional entitlement to drive huge SUVs that get 8 miles per gallon, the demand isn't going to go away.
Author:  Wesstarrunner [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:24 am ]
Post subject: 
bwave wrote:
We buy bottled water for like 1.00-2.00, and that makes it like $10 a gallon for a substance that makes up a huge percent of our body.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I know. A study found a third of it is dirtier than the average tap water. That's because standards aren't enforced. If you think bottled water tastes better- It's all in your head.

Back to gas (lol, that sounds funny): I believe that if the system was more free we would not have these prices. I also think if someone lowered their prices enough that everyone would scramble to their stations and it would hurt the other companies.
Author:  StrongRad [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Wesstarrunner wrote:
Back to gas (lol, that sounds funny): I believe that if the system was more free we would not have these prices. I also think if someone lowered their prices enough that everyone would scramble to their stations and it would hurt the other companies.


You've said "more free" several times, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what you mean by that.

As for the "gas wars", it does happen. I'll see people lined up at a station that's 2 cent's lower than the station across the street. They wait in line to fill up.
You know what I do? I go to the higher priced station. Even if I'm so far E that my car is sucking fumes from the tank, it only costs me $0.30 more. I figure that's a lot better than sitting with my car idling for 15 minutes to get some cheaper gas.

If the drop was something more substantial, say, $0.30/gallon, then it might be worth it.

I don't expect that to happen, though. as it is, most stations don't make much on gas. Several of my dad's customers own stations. They might make a penny or two per gallon or so. They make their money when people come into the store. That $1.25 bottle of Coke you buy from them only costs them something like $0.40, and that $0.50 candy bar cost them $0.15.
Author:  Wesstarrunner [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I see what you mean about the gas stations.

I mean by more free as in a more Laissez-faire styled system.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I always get my gas from Shell. Yes, it's usually a bit more (usually a few cents to a dime more than competitors), but I have a Shell credit card that gives me a 6% rebate on all gas purchases, so in the end, I save quite a lot, sometimes as much as $1 or $2 a tank! And I pay it off every month, so I don't pay interest on it.
Author:  Duecex2 [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Gas prices are always high here in suburban Chicago.
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