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Was the vote fixed?
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1249		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  soce,the elemental wizard [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Was the vote fixed?
Okay.. so who thinks the vote was fixed? I feel that the optical scanners definitely caused some problems that all seemed to add up to bonus votes for Bush. Here are some articles I read:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041105/D865R1DO0.html

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65623,00.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

I'm personally torn, because I feel that on the one hand, Kerry very well could have won the election, had it not been for the fake votes (assuming there WERE fake votes, and I realize that's a big assumtion). And yet on the other hand, the country is still quite divided, and Kerry would not have been able to accomplish much with minorities in congress.

But on the OTHER hand, I'm really unhappy about four more years of Bush, and I think he's going to do terrible things for our country.. I'd rather have Kerry do nothing than Bush make things much worse.

What do you think?
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
We've already discussed this quite a bit in the other thread. Whatever did happen with the voting machines, whether it be foul play or just manufacturer incompetence, it isn't acceptable.

I just discovered that Wikipedia has a good article called 2004 U.S. Election controversies and irregularities. Worth a look.
Author:  T-Smash [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Was the vote fixed?
socetew wrote:
I'm personally torn, because I feel that on the one hand, Kerry very well could have won the election, had it not been for the fake votes (assuming there WERE fake votes, and I realize that's a big assumtion).


Thats kind of funny you mention that, because even just in my hometown of Minneapolis, there were 100 reports of illegal activity (reported also that most were kerry supporters) in voting pre syncs by 10 AM that morning. So, yeah, definitely some fake votes.
Author:  Tom [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was the vote fixed?
T-Smash wrote:
socetew wrote:
I'm personally torn, because I feel that on the one hand, Kerry very well could have won the election, had it not been for the fake votes (assuming there WERE fake votes, and I realize that's a big assumtion).


Thats kind of funny you mention that, because even just in my hometown of Minneapolis, there were 100 reports of illegal activity (reported also that most were kerry supporters) in voting pre syncs by 10 AM that morning. So, yeah, definitely some fake votes.

Hmm. It appears that the Associated Press reported otherwise, T-Smash. The scandal in Minneapolis was about a consulting firm financed by the Republican National Committee that was accused of deceiving would-be voters and destroying Democratic voter registration cards.

Of course, it is entirely likely that there was more than one scandal in Minneapolis. Do you have a reference for your story?
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:20 am ]
Post subject: 
I find it interesting that http://www.electoral-vote.com predicted the election within about 3%.
Quote:
It was predicting that Bush would get 278 electoral votes and Kerry would get 245 electoral votes. Their respective totals were 286 and 252.
Author:  Hand Me Down Clown! [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Ugh. I hate politics. I'd much rather write my own haunted Hai-oo-koos.
Author:  thefreakyblueman [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Hand Me Down Clown! wrote:
Ugh. I hate politics. I'd much rather write my own haunted Hai-oo-koos.

Eh.. this really as spam, since it contributes absolutely nothing to the topic.

As for the election, I'm almost sure there was foul play involved, given the overwhelming evidence, but even if it's proven, I'm not sure that it'll help get Kerry in and Bush out.
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:03 am ]
Post subject: 
It won't, and Kerry's people already know it.

I have no doubt there was foul play involved. It's politics we're talking about here, for crap sake. But my thought is that the foul play on both sides probably balances out enough that it ends up being fair anyway. And I take the poll predictions from http://www.electoral-vote.com as evidence of that. I mean, it's not like the whole US thought Kerry was going to win.
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
So far I haven't seen any reports of possible "foul play" intended to skew the results toward Kerry. It's all been the other way around, from what I've seen, though the freepers have been doing some vague, ineffectual hand-waving in that vein. All of the reports of attempted voter suppression have been in favor of the GOP.

Concerning the Electoral Vote Predictor, it's worth noting that the "Votemaster" himself essentially came to the conclusion that polls are a poor predictor of who will win the election. To illustrate, on November 1, the polls predicted Kerry 298, Bush 231.
Author:  DeadGuyPerez [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
InterruptorJones wrote:
Concerning the Electoral Vote Predictor, it's worth noting that the "Votemaster" himself essentially came to the conclusion that polls are a poor predictor of who will win the election.


Good that he came to that conclusion. Polls don't really say much; the exit polls, for example... though I think that was more people who were ashamed to say they voted for Bush.

... I... uh, voted, for, uh, Peroutka... yeah, that's the ticket... :)
Author:  Didymus [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ross Peroutka?

Image
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
What's that? Voting irregularities in Florida? Two different copies of voting records? Voting records destined for the shredder? Shock, surprise.
Author:  soce,the elemental wizard [ Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice article, IJ. I take that article and match it with one about voter fraud in Ohio!
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
UC Berkeley has published a report which finds that this year in Florida, Bush's lead in the popular vote was between 130,000 and 260,000 votes greater than it should have been, due to electronic voting. The counties in which Bush did better than expected were all e-voting counties, and only the e-voting counties exhibited this irregularity. Furthermore, the impact in each county was proportional to the amount of Democratic support there.. Now, Bush "won" Florida by 381,000 votes. Subtract the "freebies" given to him by electronic voting machines, and his lead is cut by more than half. What other voting irregularities were there in Florida? Well, suffice it to say there are plenty. Is this a "mandate"?

Google News has more.
Author:  Brunswick Stu [ Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I like how the title of this thread is "was the vote fixed?". is it statistically possible that an election in which 120 million votes were cast was without any fraud?
Author:  furrykef [ Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
My own opinion is that the election was not fixed.

It was very, very broken.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
As much as I'd love to say that Bush Fixed the election he had history on his side:

NBC News said:
Quote:
Histoy has seen many elections in the middle of wars/conflicts and the current president has kept his position, the American people have not successfully ousted a President in the middle of a military conflict
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brunswick Stu wrote:
I like how the title of this thread is "was the vote fixed?". is it statistically possible that an election in which 120 million votes were cast was without any fraud?


You're exactly right. The title of this thread is "was the vote fixed?', not "was there some fraud in this election?" We're talking about the former, here, not the latter. There's a big difference.

Anyway, for those of you still wondering about those exit polls, NZ's Scoop has some details concerning just how out of whack they were.

Quote:
Dr Stephen F. Freeman from the University of Pennsylvania calculated that the odds of just three of the major swing states, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania all swinging as far as they did against their respective exit polls were 250 milllion to 1.


Just a little fraud, right?
Author:  thefreakyblueman [ Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
As much as I'd love to say that Bush Fixed the election he had history on his side:

NBC News said:
Quote:
Histoy has seen many elections in the middle of wars/conflicts and the current president has kept his position, the American people have not successfully ousted a President in the middle of a military conflict


I don't see how this proves the hundreds of "missing" votes and double-votes wrong. This is anything but the middle of the military conflict, since most of the Military's objectives there are done (Bush even said we're completely done).
Author:  Didymus [ Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Bush declared "Mission accomplished" almost 2 years ago, but we're still sending troops over there. American lives are still endangered over there. There's still combat in the streets of Fullajah. I don't really care WHAT President Bush said 2 years ago. We are still at war. When the last of the American troops is home, THEN we can say the war is over.
Author:  soce,the elemental wizard [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
... And what did you think about the Ukranian election?
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
In sworn affidavit, programmer says he developed vote-rigging prototype for Florida congressman; Congressman’s office silent

The congressman in question is Tom Feeny, former gubernatorial running-mate of Jeb Bush.

The programmer isn't alleging any actual fraud in the 2004 election, but let's not lie to ourselves, here.

And since the site's getting Slashdotted, here's a link to the Slashdot thread; in case it goes down, look there for mirrors.
Author:  Didymus [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:10 am ]
Post subject: 
This is highly disturbing. If it proves to be true, I will be morally obligated to vote against Republicans next election.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Red states? Blue States? when did this coutry turn in to Crypts and Bloods?
Author:  InterruptorJones [ Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongZysk wrote:
Red states? Blue States? when did this coutry turn in to Crypts and Bloods?


StrongZysk: this is spam. Don't do it again.
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