Homestar Runner Wiki Forum
http://forum.hrwiki.org/

Post 9/11 mentality - Police think they are above the law
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12578		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Neurario [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Post 9/11 mentality - Police think they are above the law
Maybe not all, but there's an increasing number of people who are getting arrested or attacked by police for the littlest things.

Here's an example:

http://www.infowars.net/articles/septem ... 07Cake.htm
Infowars.net wrote:
School security guards in Palmdale, CA have been caught on camera assaulting a 16-year-old girl and breaking her arm after she spilled some cake during lunch and left some crumbs on the floor after cleaning it up.

The incident occurred last week at Knight High School in Palmdale and was caught on a cell phone camera by another pupil who was then also assaulted by the security guards.

The girl, Pleajhai Mervin, told Fox News LA that she was bumped while queuing for lunch and dropped the cake. After being ordered to clean it up and then re-clean the spot three times, she attempted to leave the area out of embarrassment but was jumped on by security who forced her onto a table, breaking her wrist in the process.

Pleajhai also says that the security guard in the picture yelled "hold still nappy-head" at her, which at the time she did not know was a racist comment.

In an even more shocking development the security guards later had the mother of the girl arrested after she sought out an attorney and demanded that the guard be arrested, telling her that if she wanted the guard detained then she herself would also be charged with battery after she allegedly pushed the guard and an assistant principal of the school. She has also been suspended from her job at another school in the county.

The school expelled Pleajhai for five days before then having her arrested for battery and for littering (the dropping of the cake). Then they had the pupil who captured the video arrested along with his sister who was merely present at the scene.

A walkout is planned for this morning by some students, after which the protesters will call for the firing of the main security guard involved.

The incident serves as another unbelievable case in the wave of police brutality sweeping the country. In recent days we have covered multiple incidents of this nature and have compiled them into a page which will no doubt be added to in the months to come.

Commentators have linked the increased cases of brutality with a post 9/11 mentality in America where civil liberties have been totally diminished and the anointed "authorities" simply consider themselves above the law.

Former Reagan government official Paul Craig Roberts, for instance, has succinctly described the mentality as having turned "an epidemic of US police brutality into a pandemic".

The media reports linked above clearly sympathize with the girl and her mother but only because the girl "fully complied with the guards' orders".

What on earth have things come to when children are being physically assaulted and arrested in schools by huge fat thugs 5 times their size for "not complying with orders"?

Police and security officials are being trained that it's OK to beat, torture and taser anyone should they not answer their questions or comply with their every order.

The "security" and well being of citizens is no longer the concern of these moronic hired beefbrains who revel in their false positions of power. Ask yourself, why is the security guy pictured above wearing shades indoors? Because it is part of the gang mentality of these idiots who think its cool to put the fear of life into small kids and then break their bones if they fail to cower like mice when picked upon.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Honestly, I don't think police (in general) are power hungry.
Well, not more than they were pre-9/11.
We're hearing more about it nowadays because middle-class white people are being treated the way African Americans have been treated for years.
Ah, equality.

Also, I really don't know that Alex Jones (Inforwars) is the best person to trust for a source of anything but LOLs (lulz).
Author:  HHFOV [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, police really need to freaking realize that we have the first amendment. Like the guy at the John Kerry speech thing who got tazed, no legal action should be taken against one's own rights.

At other times, though less often, police will arrest someone simply because they want to suppress youth culture. For instance, a skateboarder may be targeted by law enforcement and even be beaten for breaking a minor law, or in some areas, not a law at all.

Racism isn't as much of a problem as it was with police, but now they need to realize that this isn't 1984.
Author:  Acekirby [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
Yeah, police really need to freaking realize that we have the first amendment. Like the guy at the John Kerry speech thing who got tazed, no legal action should be taken against one's own rights.

That guy got tazed for a number of reasons. First, you have to look at why security was taking him off the stage. He babbled on about strange things, like a book he wanted Kerry to read (Kerry already read it). He ran far beyond the allotted time that he was allowed for asking Kerry a question. He asked Kerry more questions than he was allowed to. School security cut his mike and tried to lead him off stage.Now we get to the reason he was tazed - he resisted going away. He kept shouting at the police and resisting being lead away.

He didn't get tazed because Kerry didn't want to answer his questions. He told the police that he was going to answer them as he led them away, and was answering them as the drama unfolded. He didn't get tazed as some kind of oppression, he got tazed because he's an idiot.
Author:  Didymus [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
In the case of the birthday cake, I can't help but see some extreme action on the part of the security personnel. And in their reaction to everyone else who was involved in the aftermath (the mother, the students who captured it on the phone, etc.). There really was no excuse for all that. She dropped a piece of cake by accident, attempted to comply with their demands, then got manhandled when she couldn't take it anymore. If she had threatened the security officer, then and only then would that behavior have been warranted.

But I did notice a patter on that web site. While there seemed to be clear cases of civil rights violations, there were also cases in which the alleged "victim" was clearly in the wrong. For example, in the one student who refused to present identification when asked to do so by security. I got news for you, pal: if security asks to see ID, it's a safe bet they have the authority to do so, and that you had best do it.

I'm also not convinced that this is all prompted by post-911 psychology. There is always a chance that authority figures will abuse their positions and commit atrocities. From what I've read, it happened just as often in the 1980's and 90's. The only difference is that, with today's cell phone technology, there's more of a possibility that brutality will be recorded and reported. But I don't think the article managed to establish that there is a psychological link to 911.
Author:  lahimatoa [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yet another instance in the long line of crap that comes from the "Blame Bush" crowd.

Nothing to see here... move along.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
lahimatoa wrote:
Yet another instance in the long line of crap that comes from the "Blame Bush" crowd.

Nothing to see here... move along.

Pretty much.
Everything the police do is George Bush's fault.
Like I said earlier, this has nothing to do with Bush or 9/11. If anything, people are only making a deal out of it because middle-class white people are seeing how some (a minuscule minority) police officers like to abuse their power.

Alex Jones (Infowars) is pretty much "Blame Government", be it Bill Clinton, George Bush, or that president that made banks deposit $1000 into everyone's checking accounts at random intervals.

I listened to his radio show a couple times. It was "New World Order" this and "9/11 was an inside job" that.

[s]Did anyone tell him you're not supposed to drink the bong water?[/s]
But yeah, this isn't a thread about Alex Jones, so Image
Author:  Duecex2 [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post 9/11 mentality - Police think they are above the la
===PsYchOsIs=== wrote:
Fox News LA


You mean the geniuses behind such investigative reports like "Hacker Gangs", "Playstation Pornable" and "Nintendo DS: Pedophile's Tool"?
Author:  Wesstarrunner [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:34 am ]
Post subject: 
That's almost as bad as MAVAV except it's not a parody.

And that security guard should be fired and pay restitution to all involved.
Author:  Dewy [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Wesstarrunner wrote:

And that security guard should be fired and pay restitution to all involved.


For once, I agree. I also think he should be jailed, but thats not gonna happen.
Author:  ramrod [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post 9/11 mentality - Police think they are above the la
Duecex2 wrote:
===PsYchOsIs=== wrote:
Fox News LA


You mean the geniuses behind such investigative reports like "Hacker Gangs", "Playstation Pornable" and "Nintendo DS: Pedophile's Tool"?
Nothing credible should come out of LA, ever...Especially if it's from Fox news...
Author:  bwave [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post 9/11 mentality - Police think they are above the la
===PsYchOsIs=== wrote:
stuff

What did any of that have to do with 9/11?

"Terrorists fly airplanes into buildings, so 6 years later, police could beat up a girl over a cake related incident."

Makes sense.

People need to stop relating 9/11 to every little thing. Now.
Author:  Sarge [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 am ]
Post subject: 
The Book of Terrah, 9:11

And the Bush That Walks Like A Man made some signing statements and said they were law, because he said so. And he decided that the police didn't need to actually have evidence to arrest people if they had brown skin, and he also decided that those dangerous brown-skined people didn't need trials either. You could just lock them up forever and be done with it. And then he had a whole bunch shipped off to Cuba where they were outside the reach of any sort of rights or constitutions, so everyone could feel safe. And then he invaded Iraq and turned it into iWreck, and set up some no-rights prisons there where it is OK to dog-bait and waterboard people and attach painfully thing to their genitals. But all of that was very public, so he set up secret prisons in eastern Europe that we are not supposed to talk about. And while he was at it, he diverted some non-US citizens who were trying to return to their home countries to fun, fun places like the jails of Turkey, Syria, Pakistan and Poland (and of course iWreck). Where they were accidentally beaten and detained and anal probed. And then he decided it was OKey-Dokey for the FBI to wiretap anyone they want to without a warrant just in case some people are doing bad things. And he said "I Am The Decider" and lo, The Dick shot a guy in the face and got away with it, and Alberto Gonadsza was asked some questioned by some senetors who wanted to know why he did some naughty things so he said "I Cannot Recall" a lot and that made everything OK. And then Scooter Libby was Tried, Convicted, and Pardoned for obstruction of justice, and The Bush That Walks Like A Man said it was good.

And you wonder why some bully-boys with tin stars beating up a 16-year old girl has something to do with 9/11? Wake up and smell the dictatorship/police state. If the President dosen't need to follow the law, why should his police? It's called leading by example, you know.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sarge wrote:
Wake up and smell the dictatorship/police state.
Last time I checked Big Brother isn't watching me, political prisoners are not being executed at random, my rights in the Constitution are still protected. It is not a dictatorship. If it was I would have been out of here a long time ago.

Quote:
If the President dosen't need to follow the law, why should his police? It's called leading by example, you know.
Bush does need follow the law, especially now with a Democrat Congress.
Author:  ramrod [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Quote:
If the President dosen't need to follow the law, why should his police? It's called leading by example, you know.
Bush does need follow the law, especially now with a Democrat Congress.
Just a quick reminder : The presidency, nor congress has much of any control over the police. The police is controlled and regulated by towns, counties, and states. The founding fathers wanted to keep it that way, to make sure that the President cannot have anyone arrested that he wanted. The only reason why the FBI was created originally was because the interstate crime and commerce that needed to be regulated.

So when you people say that Bush has given the police Carte-Blanche to do what they want, think again.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Besides, Bush didn't introduce the USA PATRIOT Act. Senator Frank James Sensenbrenner, Jr. did. The President doesn't introduce bills; he just signs or vetoes them.
Image
Remember Schoolhouse Rock?
Author:  Sarge [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
IantheGecko wrote:
Besides, Bush didn't introduce the USA PATRIOT Act. Senator Frank James Sensenbrenner, Jr. did. The President doesn't introduce bills; he just signs or vetoes them.

Remember Schoolhouse Rock?

Everyone knows that if the president doesn't support a bill, it has a slim-to-none chance of actually becoming law. Like you said, he has a veto. So, before the bill gets proposed, everyone tries to find out if the Pres will support it or not. If he supports it, it will likely go through. If he doesn't, it will probably die in congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlrHfgf ... h_response
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Then calling the USA PATRIOT Act a "law because he said so" doesn't add up. He did his duty of signing it into law.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ian does have a point. The only way a president can get something enacted as law, he has to have a majority of support from Congress. And even then, due process makes it so that the bill must come up through the House rather than from the top down.

Nevertheless, the proposed theory of this thread - that police/security guard brutality is the direct result of some kind of post-9/11 psychology still has not been clearly established. Cases of police/security brutality and abuse of authority existed long before 9/11, and (unfortunately) will probably exist long after 9/11 is forgotten. Rather than suppose any direct links between the crimes, let's just treat them for what they are: brutality. Punish those who commit it, rather than scrape about for a scapegoat.
Author:  Sarge [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
IantheGecko wrote:
Then calling the USA PATRIOT Act a "law because he said so" doesn't add up. He did his duty of signing it into law.

I was refering to his so-called "Signing Statements"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signing_st ... _States%29

Basicly, he decided that he can make up amendment to any law that he signs by adding some words to the end of it when he signs it. And he's used this made-up power of his to exempt himself from having to follow any part of the law he doesn't feel like following, claiming that congress doesn't have the power to regulate the activities of the president.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 309-8.html
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bush isn't the only president to use signing statements; they go back to Monroe. Stop blaming everything on Bush; just because he's used a few hundred of them during his term doesn't make him their inventor--or the root of EVERYTHING wrong with America, as you've been claiming him to be.
Author:  Sarge [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I never claimed he's the root of everything wrong with America, but his being President sure hasn't helped the matter.

No, the root of everything wrong in America is with you Americans. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm not saying you're all a bunch of idiots or evil people: I am saying that if you want the situation to improve you have to do something about it because nobody else is going to do it for you.
You can start by demanding that your elections actually be elections instead of farces. Between the archaic Electoral College system and all the election rigging that goes on in your country, it's a wonder that any of you vote at all.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK, now we're getting off-topic, but I must say that every once in a while you come onto R&P, bash our president, then leave, then come back later, bash him, etc. It's getting old, and you should know the attitude toward bigotry here. At least be glad that we don't bash our neighbors to the North, because compared to us you're apparently some utopian wonderland.

Next year will be my first election since I turned 18 at the end of last November. And you bet I'll vote. Image
Author:  Mike D [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Steering back towards topic, one factor that should be considered here is media trends. If a given story proves popular then you can expect similar stories to crop up. Thus a particular topic will remain in vogue until another trend comes along and replaces it. Lately police brutality stories have been in fashion, and this makes it appear that we're seeing a wave of police brutality in society. In reality what you're seeing is a spotlight fallacy driven by the media's tendency to devote time and space to trendy stories.

Remember the old parable about the blind men and the elephant? One thought it was a wall, one thought it was a snake, one thought it was a tree...all depending on which bit of elephant he had his hands on. That's pretty much how a spotlight fallacy works. It appears that there's an increase in police brutality, but what you may be seeing is an increase in the media's reporting of police brutality. A better source might be the U.S. Department of Justice, which makes use of academic research into a variety of law enforcement topics. Some of their numbers might surprise you*.

Mike

* Take, for example, female-on-male severe domestic violence, which is much more prevalent than popularly believed.
Author:  Dacheet15 [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sarge, the Bible has nothing to do with....
What am I kidding, You ROCK!

But I do agree, police think that they can do whatever they want because they have little cute sirens on the cars.
Author:  Amorican [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
There's always more to the story. . .
Here are some headlines I see on the yahoo news regarding this:

"School guards break child’s wrist and arrest her for dropping cake"
"School Security Guards Beat Teen over Cake Spill"
"School Guards Accused of Overreacting"
"Black Students Are Being Victimized"

Only one of those headlines even comes close to trying to stay neutral. Nobody is giving the other half of the story except for what I've heard on the radio. Several witnesses, students and staff of the school, called into a radio program I was listening to to tell another side of the story. The cake was not just dropped. There was a full-on CAKE FIGHT!! And the girl wasn't trying to walk away quietly. She was becoming a complete spaz and wouldn't calm down. The guard had to restrain her to get her to stop going crazy. The camera footage only caught the very end. The only video I've seen shows the girl already down on the table. But people jumped to so many conclusions just from the video.

People need to stop reading the story in the news, or especially on a website run by Alex Jones, and think that's the end of it. When the story first broke, I didn't necessarily believe her, nor the guard. I know both sides are going to spin the story to their advantage, and the truth is somewhere in between. He's probably a jerk who overreacted, especially if he actually called her "nappy-headed." And chances are she did some things to provoke the guard. According to the witnesses who called into the radio show, that's exactly what happened. And I don't necessarily believe them either, because they may have their own agendas. But there is a whole lot more going on here than "white pig rentacop beats black girl for no reason."
Author:  lahimatoa [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good to have Sarge back. :)
Author:  Duecex2 [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I doubt this has anything to do with 9/11, psych. Srsly.
Author:  Zoologist! [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
What does police brutality have to do with 9/11? It's just the fact that it's caught on video more frequent than it used to.
Author:  furrykef [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't be surprised if reactions to 9/11 has caused some oppression of this kind, but I'd be a lot more convinced that it did here if it were much sooner after 9/11, or if it involved Arabs/Muslims, or even just a hugely increased police force that might have resulted from 9/11. So far I don't see any connection. There might be one, but it's very indirect at most.

But I remember one thing that made me cringe about the whole ATHF fiasco in Boston was that the police, mayor, or somebody -- I forget who -- began a sentence with, "In the post-9/11 world..." I was thinking, "Holy crap, we're in a completely different world now?" I mean, yeah, 9/11's one of the most important events in our country's history and it changed a lot of lives, there's no question about that, but we're still in the same "world" we've always been in. Not to mention that if Al-Quaeda wanted to bomb some place, they wouldn't put cute pictures on their bombs... but that's getting into an entirely different topic.

- Kef
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/