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| Hunting http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12921 |
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| Author: | netzen [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:42 am ] |
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I"m back, the hunting trip was a success. I have slain my first deer!! HOOOOAHHHH!!!! *Manly grunts* |
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| Author: | Inverse Tiger [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:48 am ] |
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Yeah, but did you do that by jumping out of a tree onto a deer you've been tracking for two weeks and snapping its neck with your bare hands? Didn't THINK so. Yeah I've never done that either. Or with a gun. Welcome back! |
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| Author: | ramrod [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:29 am ] |
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netzen wrote: I"m back, the hunting trip was a success. I have slain my first deer!! You know, I really don't understand hunting.
HOOOOAHHHH!!!! *Manly grunts* "Hey! Let's go out and kill a defenseless animal, decapitate it, and put it's head on the wall! It's stylish!" |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:41 am ] |
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ramrod wrote: You know, I really don't understand hunting. "Hey! Let's go out and kill a defenseless animal, decapitate it, and put it's head on the wall! It's stylish!" Rammy, you are a well of knowledge. And I agree with that knowledge. Seriously, if you Super-Christians hold moral values so high, how can you justify killing a helpless animal? Mandy wrote: 'm srry. ):
Yeah. I guess I HAVE learned my lesson. Well, there ya go. |
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| Author: | ramrod [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:50 am ] |
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Rusty wrote: ramrod wrote: You know, I really don't understand hunting. "Hey! Let's go out and kill a defenseless animal, decapitate it, and put it's head on the wall! It's stylish!" Rammy, you are a well of knowledge. And I agree with that knowledge. Seriously, if you Super-Christians hold moral values so high, how can you justify killing a helpless animal? |
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| Author: | Inverse Tiger [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:22 am ] |
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Eh, as long as the hunters don't waste the meat, doesn't seem any morally different than having a cow killed for yer burger. But shooting it and not using the meat... that's a durn shame and a waste. Especially since deer meat is some of the tastiest on the planet. *Homer Simpson style drooling* |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:35 pm ] |
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Quote: Seriously, if you Super-Christians hold moral values so high, how can you justify killing a helpless animal?
1. It's an animal, not a human being, and the last time I checked, there's nothing in our faith that says that killing animals is inherently wrong. 2. I don't know a single person who kills deer and DOESN'T eat it. 3. And like Tiger said, if you kill it to eat it, it's no different than killing cows for burgers or chickens for... chicken. 4. There are places in the US where the deer population is heavy, since there aren't as many natural predators to keep them in balance. Hunting them keeps the population to a manageable level, so they don't overpopulate and destroy the environment. Conclusion: Killing and eating deer = Good Thing, not Bad Thing! |
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| Author: | ramrod [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:59 pm ] |
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Didymus wrote: Conclusion: Killing and eating deer = Good Thing, not Bad Thing! I'm talking about killing a deer or rabbit or bear just so you can stuff it and display it all over your house. That kinda stuff.
But anyways, we're getting way off topic. This is supposed to be about leaving and coming back type stuff, not hunting. If you wanna talk about hunting, take it to R&P. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:03 am ] |
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Didymus wrote: 2. I don't know a single person who kills deer and DOESN'T eat it.
You don't get out much. |
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| Author: | HHFOV [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:20 am ] |
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I like how everyone is ignoring the 4th thing that Didymus said, which pardons even not eating them. |
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| Author: | Vitruvian Dude [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:26 am ] |
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I say bring back wolves. Lots of 'em. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:29 am ] |
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote: I like how everyone is ignoring the 4th thing that Didymus said, which pardons even not eating them.
Not really. When the Human populace starts getting too big, Didy will not go, "Hey, y'all, let's kill some of the dumber ones". No, because apparently, humans are special. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:30 am ] |
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Rusty wrote: HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote: I like how everyone is ignoring the 4th thing that Didymus said, which pardons even not eating them. Not really. When the Human populace starts getting too big, Didy will not go, "Hey, y'all, let's kill some of the dumber ones". No, because apparently, humans are special. LAWL, strawman. Rusty wrote: Didymus wrote: 2. I don't know a single person who kills deer and DOESN'T eat it. You don't get out much. What's that supposed to mean? I know plenty of hunters and I don't know anyone that shoots them that doesn't eat them. Honestly, that "super-Christians" thing really comes across as trolling. Using the logic you used there, Christians shouldn't eat anything because something is harmed or killed when you eat. Rusty, do you eat meat? If so, are you somehow more ethical because what you eat was killed by someone else? |
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| Author: | Casimir III the Great [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:37 am ] |
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edit: nvm I need to start reading whole conversations. |
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| Author: | Chekt [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:39 am ] |
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Hey guys, shut up. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:41 am ] |
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Chekt wrote: Hey guys, shut up.
LOL, Ol' Chekt is using the Rosalie argument style. I was about to split the hunting stuff off into another thread. Edit:I've moved the discussion over here. That thread was going way off topic. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:01 am ] |
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Basically, what he's saying is that it's fine to kill animals, but not humans. Which is what his religion says, all fine and good (just my opinion here, but that is just disgusting). But, what if we were to start really overpopulating? Would the solution, or one of them, be to start killing humans for any reason? No, because to people of that religion, killing animals is fine, but killing humans is wrong. So number four of his argument would not work, because of his religious bias. That isn't to say overpopulation is a good thing, and shouldn't be dealt with. But in a way other than killing a defenseless creature that has done nothing wrong to that person or any other. To your other thing, Sree, I lived in Tennessee for twelve years of my life. My dad had to edit a show all about killing animals and framing them on your wall. There are many hunters that kill just for the sport. And I'm sure that there are other places with the same thing. All the hunters I knew were bible-thumpers. And most have a reputation for being them. Now, for survival...that's a tough one. No, I don't think myself more ethical, and yes, I do eat meat. I wish I didn't, and if I had a choice, I wouldn't. However, most green vegetables make me vomit, so I have no choice but to eat meat to get vital nutrients. I wish I didn't have to come to this conclusion, but in order for many people to survive, helpless animals must be killed. I don't like it at all. But if there's something I can't stand, it's people who kill for the sake of playing god. That's when I really get ticked off. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:13 am ] |
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Quote: Basically, what he's saying is that it's fine to kill animals, but not humans. Which is what his religion says, all fine and good (just my opinion here, but that is just disgusting). But, what if we were to start really overpopulating? Would the solution, or one of them, be to start killing humans for any reason? No, because to people of that religion, killing animals is fine, but killing humans is wrong. So number four of his argument would not work, because of his religious bias.
I do not agree with your assessment here. It is not mere religious bias that allows me to distinguish between humans and lower animals, but the fact that we are human and they are not. Great minds of history - including Aristotle, Aquinas, DesCartes, and others - would agree. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:14 am ] |
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The fact that we are human and they are not? So they don't have the right to live because we are just something that they're not? |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:17 am ] |
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Humans are rational creatures. Deer are not. Big difference. So here's a good question for you: if you're so convinced that there should be no distinction between rational creatures and lesser ones, have you ever stepped on a cockroach? Have you ever killed a bee? Or a fly? If so, then you are just as guilty as those you dislike because they kill deer. As for those hunters who would kill a deer and not eat its meat: they're stupid for letting good meat go to waste. And I'm not defending them at all. I'm defending people like my own dad, who, when he does go hunting, takes home the meat. |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:20 am ] |
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It's basic instinct for many animals to hunt other ones. As humans, we were made to do that. Both a biological and a Biblical scholar would tell you that. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:21 am ] |
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At least a deer has a chance. Those poor cows and chickens don't. And yet I bet humans are responsible for killing way more cows and chickens than deer. |
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| Author: | HHFOV [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:23 am ] |
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Granted, this has more to do with eating the meat than hunting it, but I think it still applies somewhat. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:33 am ] |
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Quote: Humans are rational creatures. Deer are not. Big difference.
So here's a good question for you: if you're so convinced that there should be no distinction between rational creatures and those that are not, have you ever stepped on a cockroach? Have you ever killed a bee? Or a fly? If so, then you are just as guilty as those you dislike because they kill deer. As for those hunters who would kill a deer and not eat its meat: they're stupid for letting good meat go to waste. And I'm not defending them at all. I'm defending people like my own dad, who, when he does go hunting, takes home the meat. Letting good meat go to waste..ugh. That's disgusting. Yes, I've swatted bugs, but only when it's necessary. Not often. If you absolutely need to, go right ahead and kill it, but if you don't need to, why the heck would you do it? Why is it fun to kill an animal? I'm not really so against killing animals for food as I am for hunters doing it for sport, which a lot of people do. But here's a question for you, Didy - if you had to kill a human for food, would you? And I pretty much know the answer to that. So, if that human was irrational, like a deer, would you kill it? |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:35 am ] |
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Quote: But here's a question for you, Didy - if you had to kill a human for food, would you? And I pretty much know the answer to that.
So, if that human was irrational, like a deer, would you kill it? Looks an awful lot like a red herring to me, Rusty. I've already indicated the distinction between human beings and lesser animals. I fail to see why this question is even relevant. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:39 am ] |
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No kidding, answer my second question. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:40 am ] |
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As stated before, it is irrelevant. If you want to start a thread on cannibalism, go ahead. But for the time being, I have already demonstrated the distinguishing difference between humans and lesser animals. Therefore your question has no bearing on the discussion whatsoever. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:42 am ] |
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Rusty wrote: I'm not really so against killing animals for food as I am for hunters doing it for sport, which a lot of people do.
There are plenty more deer hunters that actually eat what they kill than those that just kill for the sake of killing. There are people who will shout "ZOMG SUPERMARKET!!" type things at hunters. I often wonder why a dude two cubicles over from me (who gardens) uses the "SUPERMARKET!" argument against hunters. |
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| Author: | Rusty [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:47 am ] |
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Didymus wrote: As stated before, it is irrelevant. If you want to start a thread on cannibalism, go ahead. But for the time being, I have already demonstrated the distinguishing difference between humans and lesser animals. Therefore your question has no bearing on the discussion whatsoever.
Why can't you just answer the question? It's hypothetical, it's not to be taken seriously as cannibalism. |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:51 am ] |
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But if you know the answer already, then why bother asking it at all? For my two cents, I say no. I don't eat my own kind. |
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