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MySpace hoax leads to teen's suicide
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13008		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  HHFOV [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:35 pm ]
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Yes, and had your original post not gone off-topic and addressed ADHD rather than depression, her reply need not have been made.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:38 pm ]
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
Yes, and had your original post not gone off-topic and addressed ADHD rather than depression, her reply need not have been made.
Does it really matter? This thread is about a chick who killed herself over a fake boy.



Man, we've really gone off topic that far, haven't we?
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:39 pm ]
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COLA does have a point, though - things like ADD and depression and whatnot are over-diagnosed. That doesn't mean that they're non-existent, it just means that not everyone diagnosed with them has a real problem.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:46 pm ]
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
COLA does have a point, though - things like ADD and depression and whatnot are over-diagnosed. That doesn't mean that they're non-existent, it just means that not everyone diagnosed with them has a real problem.
And there ya go.

Now then, About this girl:

Why is every media outlet and everyone with an LJ/Blogger account making a big deal out of this? Same thing goes with the parents of the deceased. Sure sure, their daughter killed herself, and its their neighbors fault, but don't you think that they are just attention whoring their daughters memory by releasing all of this information to the internet so these people with unwarranted self importance can give their opinion about it and rally bloggers for their cause?

Its a private matter between two families, and we should respect the girls memory by letting it be.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:59 pm ]
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
COLA does have a point, though - things like ADD and depression and whatnot are over-diagnosed. That doesn't mean that they're non-existent, it just means that not everyone diagnosed with them has a real problem.


He wasn't saying they were overdiagnosed. He was saying they didn't exist.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:15 am ]
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I think the problem with COLA's argument is that he assumes psychological disorders like that are always just black-and-white and either you have the disease or you don't have any symptoms at all, so when someone who has very mild symptoms of something like ADD, it's assumed that that's as bad as ADD gets.

For example, on 60 Minutes they showed some girl who had some disease where she was afraid to throw anything away. Many people (including me) sometimes feel like they don't throw as much away as they could. By COLA's logic, I would say "well, I have trouble throwing stuff away too, and I can deal with it." But this girl was living in a house 99% loaded with trash, and there was only a single-file pathway around it for the camera crew to get through. She refused to throw even things like used band-aids away. You can't say there's no disorder there...

So yeah, the same goes for depression. You might say "well, I get depressed sometimes, but I don't go around killing myself over something on the interblag," but, maybe someone has a lot worse of depression than you.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:23 am ]
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^This man speaks truth.
Author:  Duecex2 [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:34 am ]
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COLA brings up a few good points, but he's making broad generalizations.

dante: no, i'm making generalizations about broads
Author:  HHFOV [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:08 pm ]
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Duecex2 wrote:
COLA brings up a few good points, but he's making broad generalizations.

dante: no, i'm making generalizations about broads
Fail, it's Veronica who says "You're making a generalization about broads".

And I'm pretty sure Cola is just trolling.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:20 pm ]
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
Duecex2 wrote:
COLA brings up a few good points, but he's making broad generalizations.

dante: no, i'm making generalizations about broads
Fail, it's Veronica who says "You're making a generalization about broads".

And I'm pretty sure Cola is just trolling.
Image
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:26 pm ]
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Now he's trolling....


In all seriousness though, it's unfathomable to me why anyone would not believe in mental illness. There is an unbelievable amount of evidence pointing out that mental illness is as real as a can of Pepsi. I know I've got depression. It's no where near as bad as it once was, but I still have it.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:41 pm ]
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
Now he's trolling....


In all seriousness though, it's unfathomable to me why anyone would not believe in mental illness. There is an unbelievable amount of evidence pointing out that mental illness is as real as a can of Pepsi. I know I've got depression. It's no where near as bad as it once was, but I still have it.
I believe in mental illness, just not ones that can be easily faked.
Author:  HHFOV [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:44 pm ]
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Image
Nope.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:48 pm ]
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Now he's trolling....


In all seriousness though, it's unfathomable to me why anyone would not believe in mental illness. There is an unbelievable amount of evidence pointing out that mental illness is as real as a can of Pepsi. I know I've got depression. It's no where near as bad as it once was, but I still have it.
I believe in mental illness, just not ones that can be easily faked.


Image
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:43 am ]
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DaThnikkaman wrote:
*Insanely invalid point*

I half-heartedly agree. But for the most part, this is not a valid point.

My theory for your point is that you didn't read the article or watch the video. This girl suffered from depression along with other devastating mental illnesses. These are illnesses that can make anyone do such a thing to themselves. Also, this is a guy (or [rule 6] family) who had sent her an affectionate message, something she hadn't received before. Even though they knew her problems, they proceed to say harsh things about her. This is likely to induce suicide.

If anyone is to blame, it's her parents. They know her state of mental being, they see what is said, they watch her go to her room and hear nothing but silence for 45 minutes. They didn't react until it was too late.

Edit by furrykef: Rule 6
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:46 pm ]
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
If anyone is to blame, it's her parents. They know her state of mental being, they see what is said, they watch her go to her room and hear nothing but silence for 45 minutes. They didn't react until it was too late.


I must disagree. I lock myself in my room for hours on a daily basis, and all I ever do is surf the Internet. Granted, they should've been a little more careful, considering her mental illness, but they're really not the ones to blame--it's the other family.
Author:  DaThnikkaman [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:51 pm ]
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
My theory for your point is that you didn't read the article or watch the video. This girl suffered from depression along with other devastating mental illnesses. These are illnesses that can make anyone do such a thing to themselves. Also, this is a guy (or family) who had sent her an affectionate message, something she hadn't received before. Even though they knew her problems, they proceed to say harsh things about her. This is likely to induce suicide.


I did in fact read the article, and my opinion still stands. The blame goes out to a bunch of people here. I'm not saying that what the neighbors did was right or anything; far from it, I think that they sunk to a new level of low in what they did. I'm just saying that I believe that it's an incredibly stupid thing to commit suicide over some MySpace messages. Please don't misunderstand: depression is a serious disease, WHEN IT'S BIOLOGICAL IN NATURE, just like the article stated can be the case in some instances. But not always. Sometimes, a person can become depressed just because of an external event, i.e. they got an F on a test, or they broke up with a significant other, etc. There are 2 questions I have here: Was the girl's depression in fact biological in nature, rather than just her feeling down about some stuff she might have done or about some stuff that might have happened? And why was she allowed to play around on the internet alone if she was so depressed, especially on MySpace?

Mandy wrote:
AbuGrape45 wrote:
If anyone is to blame, it's her parents. They know her state of mental being, they see what is said, they watch her go to her room and hear nothing but silence for 45 minutes. They didn't react until it was too late.

I must disagree. I lock myself in my room for hours on a daily basis, and all I ever do is surf the Internet. Granted, they should've been a little more careful, considering her mental illness, but they're really not the ones to blame--it's the other family.


Both families are culpable in this case. The instigating family for doing just that, instigating this whole mess, and the girl's own family for not being careful concerning their child's well-being when they knew that she wasn't OK. And your parents don't worry when you lock yourself in your room, Mandy, because you're not depressed. At least, not like this girl was. So I don't see a valid comparison.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:52 pm ]
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When they say someone suffers from depression, they generally mean clinical depression.

So yes, I'd say it was biological in nature.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:56 am ]
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
AbuGrape45 wrote:
If anyone is to blame, it's her parents. They know her state of mental being, they see what is said, they watch her go to her room and hear nothing but silence for 45 minutes. They didn't react until it was too late.


I must disagree. I lock myself in my room for hours on a daily basis, and all I ever do is surf the Internet. Granted, they should've been a little more careful, considering her mental illness, but they're really not the ones to blame--it's the other family.

You make an excellent point.

The parents of each girl involved are to blame. The victim's parents should have been slightly more attentive, and the antagonist parents simply should not have screwed with a mentally unstable 13-year-old.
Author:  Schmelen [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:28 am ]
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
AbuGrape45 wrote:
If anyone is to blame, it's her parents. They know her state of mental being, they see what is said, they watch her go to her room and hear nothing but silence for 45 minutes. They didn't react until it was too late.


I must disagree. I lock myself in my room for hours on a daily basis, and all I ever do is surf the Internet. Granted, they should've been a little more careful, considering her mental illness, but they're really not the ones to blame--it's the other family.


Augh... You're SO lucky you can lock yourself in your room...
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:43 pm ]
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
The victim's parents should have been slightly more attentive,
I'm not so hard on the victim's parents. I mean, almost all parents know far less about the Internet than their kids, and they were probably no exception. The girl was probably trying to keep the whole thing a secret anyways.
Author:  Acekirby [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:06 pm ]
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^ Well yeah. My parents are always saying "never talk to someone you don't know IRL" (oops shouldn't be here). If that girl's parents took a same doctrine but enforced it harder, of COURSE she wouldn't tell them she was talking to someone.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:53 am ]
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Acekirby wrote:
^ Well yeah. My parents are always saying "never talk to someone you don't know IRL" (oops shouldn't be here). If that girl's parents took a same doctrine but enforced it harder, of COURSE she wouldn't tell them she was talking to someone.
Uh, Ace, her parents monitored the girls myspace, and only they had the password for it, so they saw everything she did, and they allowed her to be on Myspace when they said so. She even told her mother that a cute boy from another town sent her a friend request and asked if she could accept. Parents said yes, not knowing who the boy was or what its intent was, and for a few weeks it seemed to play out alright. Then one day she logged on to find she had comments from several people calling her a bad and orrible little fat girl. Her mother left to do something for a while, and when she came back, Megan was in tears, crying about the things these people posted about her. Megan had commented back everyone and sent out bullitents calling them liars and jerks, and several other explatives, and when her mother came home and saw her curses on the screen, she was much more concerned at what her daughter had said to these people than how her daughter felt. Her mother said "You should have logged off when I told you to!" and scolded her. Megan cried and ran upstairs, and the last message she recived on myspace was from the fake account saying:
Quote:
Everybody in O'Fallon knows how you are. You are a bad person and everybody hates you. Have a s***** rest of your life. The world would be a better place without you

And she diddn't get a chance to read it. She had killed herself in the closet of her room.

On that note, both families are to blame, but megans disobeyance of her mothers commands ultimatley led to her suicide. So if her mother had forcibly made her log off, instead of just telling her to, she may have been alive today and we wouldn't have known any of this.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:10 am ]
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Uh, Ace, her parents monitored the girls myspace, and only they had the password for it, so they saw everything she did, and they allowed her to be on Myspace when they said so. She even told her mother that a cute boy from another town sent her a friend request and asked if she could accept. Parents said yes, not knowing who the boy was or what its intent was, and for a few weeks it seemed to play out alright. Then one day she logged on to find she had comments from several people calling her a bad and orrible little fat girl. Her mother left to do something for a while, and when she came back, Megan was in tears, crying about the things these people posted about her. Megan had commented back everyone and sent out bullitents calling them liars and jerks, and several other explatives, and when her mother came home and saw her curses on the screen, she was much more concerned at what her daughter had said to these people than how her daughter felt. Her mother said "You should have logged off when I told you to!" and scolded her.

Exactly why the parents should take some blame. It's not all their fault, but they do deserve half the blame.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:30 am ]
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AbuGrape45 wrote:
Exactly why the parents should take some blame. It's not all their fault, but they do deserve half the blame.
In this world, you either get all the blame or you get none of it, which do you think they'll choose?
Author:  IantheGecko [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:34 am ]
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Of course they don't want to take the blame. Parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids anymore.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:38 am ]
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They'd happily take none of it, if that was actually true. You can get partial blame for most things.

Football, for example. You have 5 linemen, a QB and a WR. Quarterback has to throw on the run, throws a less than perfect pass, but it hits the wide-out in the hands. The QB mad a bad throw, the line didn't give him enough time to throw, and the receiver dropped it. They're sharing the blame.

Try and make a counterpoint if you want another cliche.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:33 am ]
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In my opinion, I belive it was an accidental death. She couldn't have fallen far enough inside of a closet with one of those wooden or sometimes steel bars holding the belt. She would have been a few inches off the ground. What I belive happened is that she attempted to hang herself, and instead of it killing her like she hoped, it just put her cervical spine in a vulnerable position, thus nocking her out. When her mother found her, she pulled her out of the closet, strained the girls neck injury even worse, and killed her by attempting to perform Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation on her, thus destroying what little chance of survival she had left.

In essance, Megan set herself up the death, and her parents are the one who excecuted it.

Of course, the parents arent going to own up and say "We accidentally killed her due to spinal injuries from the attempted hanging," no, they're gonna blame the other family saying that if they never sent those messages, they would have never been in the position to kill their daughter accidentally.

I don't know what the technical term would be, but if I had to say something, it'd probably be Suicidaly accidental Murder.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:47 pm ]
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It's not murder if it's not intentional. And if you're right about how she died, her mom was trying to save her, not trying to kill her.
Author:  The Noid [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:49 pm ]
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So it would be manslaughter then, right?
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