The Noid wrote:
No, this is Christian rock in reverse. 
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:22 am ] |
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I'd say we should get back on topic. But what do I know? I'm just a mod. |
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| Author: | DeathbyChiasmus [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:52 pm ] |
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One complaint that I'm hearing a lot of in this thread is that a lot of Christian Rock is just cleverly-concealed money-grubbing: e.g. trying to copy the style of an existing successful "secular" band/trend, or going the Christian-music route less out of any sincerely-held convictions and more to tap into a target market. I'll admit it's a critique with some validity to it, but an interesting thing is that Five Iron Frenzy actually addressed this in a number of their songs. Their song "All the Hype" dealt with rock stars in general who put themselves up on a pedestal and are only in it for the fame, and "Blue Mix" directly criticized the Christian music industry for being more concerned with marketability and t-shirt sales than actually making music that's glorifying to God. Sample lyric: "Under the guise of Jesus Christ, beneath the vibe and all the lights, they lie; these spies cover your eyes." And now that I'm done blatantly plugging the late great Five Iron Frenzy... I'd also like to say that I don't think the argument holds water, that rock music is inherently rebellious and rebellion has no place in Christianity. Jesus Christ himself was one of the most vocal critics of the cheap and shallow religion of his day, and his opposition to the status quo actually prompted his opponents to crucify him, because they saw him as a threat to their established power. Christianity isn't based on rebellion, I admit--its basis is reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ and submission to his will, which is definitely not a rebellion--but that doesn't mean there aren't things worth rebelling against. Just as is the case in logic, you can't affirm something without simultaneously denying its antithesis. |
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| Author: | Duecex2 [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:05 pm ] |
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I agree with everything that guy said. |
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| Author: | Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:08 pm ] |
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Duecex2 wrote: Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: IantheGecko wrote: OK, now that's just rude, COLA. You're judging without even listening first. Replace "Nigga" with "Jesus" and its all the same.*astonished that cola got away with this humongous breach of rule 6* |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:09 pm ] |
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: What breach? Theres not a curse word in there. I think he is referring to that racial slur you used.
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| Author: | Acekirby [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:11 pm ] |
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Guys, we're still discussing it. In the meantime, please return to the topic. Christian Rock is not my style. It's not my thing at all. It just doesn't...feel right to me. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:15 pm ] |
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The racial slur falls more into the category of Rule 2 than Rule 6. For that reason, we considered not just the term in itself, but also the intent behind the use of the term. Mind you, we're not saying that using the term is okay. Only that we are discussing whether to provisionally allow it in this context. In other words, don't make a habit of using it. Like Ace says, back on topic: I'm not a fan of Christian rock either, for a number of reasons that have already been discussed. If I want music that carries The Word, I prefer a style that fits the message. For that reason, I prefer Sacred Classical or traditional hymns. When I want music to rock out to, I'd just as soon jam to music that's good for that. |
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| Author: | ed 'lim' smilde [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:18 am ] |
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DeathbyChiasmus wrote: I'd also like to say that I don't think the argument holds water, that rock music is inherently rebellious and rebellion has no place in Christianity. Jesus Christ himself was one of the most vocal critics of the cheap and shallow religion of his day, and his opposition to the status quo actually prompted his opponents to crucify him, because they saw him as a threat to their established power. Christianity isn't based on rebellion, I admit--its basis is reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ and submission to his will, which is definitely not a rebellion--but that doesn't mean there aren't things worth rebelling against. Just as is the case in logic, you can't affirm something without simultaneously denying its antithesis. What are you saying? That Christianity teaches rebellion, but not rebellion against Christianity? What kind of thing would teach rebellion against itself?
(Aside from that, rock isn't inherently rebellious. It might be traditionally, but there's a big difference between that and inherently...) |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:09 am ] |
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Christianity does teach rebellion against the world: Romans 12:2, MKJV wrote: And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God. Basically means, don't let the world transform you--let God's will and spirit do it.
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| Author: | Mikes! [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:30 am ] |
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Christianity (in practice) seems to discourage rebellion, though. |
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| Author: | ed 'lim' smilde [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:45 pm ] |
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Mikes! wrote: Christianity (in practice) seems to discourage rebellion, though. I still don't know what you mean by that. Ian quoted a good verse that explains the opposite, but the only thing I can think of is that Christianity discourages rebellion against itself, but again, everything discourages rebellion against itself.
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| Author: | DeathbyChiasmus [ Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:33 pm ] |
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All right. I think I need to clarify what I was getting at. I don't seem to have communicated what I meant to. I wasn't making the point that Christianity does not teach rebellion against itself. As ed 'lim' smilde points out, nothing teaches rebellion against itself, so the point that Christianity doesn't teach rebellion against itself scarcely bears mention. The point that I intended to make was that there are sorts of rebellion that have a legitimate place in Christian practice. Beyond the example of Jesus in rebelling against false and ostentatious religion, another example that occurs to me is that of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refusing to obey the Babylonian king's order to worship a statue of him (see Daniel 3). In essence, when the authorities of the day require allegiance to them over against allegiance to God, the Christian is justified in his refusal to obey. However, Mikes! has a point as well. Christianity does in fact discourage certain other forms of rebellion, not just in practice but in principle. Romans 13:1-7 contains an admonishment to obey the ruling powers, whom God has given authority for a reason. In this passage, Paul in essence says that the authorities exist to reward good and punish evil, and should be obeyed with very few exceptions. (Peter makes a similar point in 1 Peter 2:13-14.) The basic rule is that insofar as the edicts of government authorities do not contradict God's commandments, require denunciation of Him, or run contrary to His will, they are to be obeyed. But I'm getting a bit far afield of the topic of Christian Rock, aren't I? ;) |
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| Author: | The Noid [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:55 am ] |
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Christian rock is a lot better if it's in reverse. Actually, it's not Christian rock, but close enough, it's a song with Christian themes. |
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| Author: | DS_Kid [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:21 am ] |
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Eh, I'm not too big of a fan of Christian rock, but I don't mind its place as a genre in music. My care cup on what the bands do and don't do is pretty much empty, as long as they make music that some person will enjoy. |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:41 pm ] |
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The Noid wrote: No, this is Christian rock in reverse.
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| Author: | iand93 [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:35 pm ] |
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Mute Math is christian rock? I thought they were just indie. |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:56 pm ] |
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Yeah, they're Christian, but their previous band Earthsuit had spritually deeper lyrics. |
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| Author: | Cleverdan [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:52 am ] |
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Meh, I've never been the biggest fan of Christian rock. I used to be force-fed it back in elementary school, since the family I carpooled with every day listened to it on the way from school. So maybe I just got sick of it from listening to it too much. EDIT: Holy crap, I just made a post in R&P. I haven't been in here in about a year. |
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