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Christian Rock
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13083		 Page 4 of 6
Author:  furrykef [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:33 am ]
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Shippinator Mandy wrote:
Sorry. It just seems like if something's religious, you automatically dislike it. :/


Heh. I still have that problem sometimes.
Author:  Marshmallow Roast [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:46 am ]
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Yes, I can't comprehend at all why anyone would believe in a god. To me, it seems as impossible as the Tooth Fairy. But that doesn't mean I think religious people are stupid. I think this is just your low self-esteem playing into it; you're paranoid that I hate you, and by extension, all religious people.

But I don't, and this has little to do with that anyway. I'm merely saying that rock music and religion are best kept two separate worlds.
Author:  Biscuithead [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:59 am ]
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Marshmallow Roast wrote:
Yes, I can't comprehend at all why anyone would believe in a god. To me, it seems as impossible as the Tooth Fairy.
On an interesting side note, what do you believe in? And how do you explain things such as supernatural occurances and religious experiences, as well as creation and stuff (because I think most scientific theory on this subject is very flawed)?
I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I just like to hear about the viewpoint of other people.
Author:  furrykef [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:04 am ]
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Biscuithead wrote:
as well as creation and stuff (because I think most scientific theory on this subject is very flawed)


Hoo boy. Shall we resurrect "Creationism vs. Evolution"?
Author:  Inverse Tiger [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:09 am ]
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Rather not, but that's a better option than having that discussion in this thread.
Author:  The Noid [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Marshmallow Roast wrote:
Yes, I can't comprehend at all why anyone would believe in a god. To me, it seems as impossible as the Tooth Fairy. But that doesn't mean I think religious people are stupid. I think this is just your low self-esteem playing into it; you're paranoid that I hate you, and by extension, all religious people.

But I don't, and this has little to do with that anyway. I'm merely saying that rock music and religion are best kept two separate worlds.


Because some people just like believing more than non-believing. It's more comforting, at least to me.

That being said I don't think I've ever been inside of a church.
Author:  furrykef [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:12 am ]
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Inverse Tiger wrote:
Rather not, but that's a better option than having that discussion in this thread.


Eh? What's wrong with reviving that thread?
Author:  Biscuithead [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:19 am ]
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I think creationism vs. evolutionism would be an interesting discussion, as long as both sides of the argument gave proper scientific arguments, and did not end up with bigotry and flame wars.
Author:  Inverse Tiger [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:19 am ]
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furrykef wrote:
Inverse Tiger wrote:
Rather not, but that's a better option than having that discussion in this thread.


Eh? What's wrong with reviving that thread?

It's one of those ones where everyone says the same stuff over and over until it dies out and then someone who wasn't involved the last time comes along, says stuff that's already been mulled over, people say the exact same stuff in response... it doesn't go anywhere.

But yeah, if Biscuithead would like to have that discussion, that's where it goes. :p

EDIT: Here's a link to that thread
Author:  Mikes! [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:23 am ]
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Biscuithead wrote:
Marshmallow Roast wrote:
Yes, I can't comprehend at all why anyone would believe in a god. To me, it seems as impossible as the Tooth Fairy.
On an interesting side note, what do you believe in? And how do you explain things such as supernatural occurances and religious experiences, as well as creation and stuff (because I think most scientific theory on this subject is very flawed)?
You don't need science to explain everything. The beauty of science, however, is that while religion is a set of distinct rules and beliefs, science is not a belief system. When used correctly, it is a method of quantifiable testing, so one can expect more reliable answers from reasoning and logic rather than an old book. Science is not something to be taken for granted, though, and the history of science just serves to illustrate that all paradigms must be tested and challenged.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:27 am ]
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Marshmallow Roast wrote:
I'm merely saying that rock music and religion are best kept two separate worlds.
I think it's the opposite. I like rock because it works better for good, meaningful lyrics (that were actually written by the artists). Pop, on the other hand, is full of ridiculously clichéd meanings (breaking up with boyfriend/girlfriend, enjoy life while it lasts, I like you the way you are, you make me feel nah nah nah nah, etc...). And don't even get me started about country...
Author:  Mikes! [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:32 am ]
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I don't think you listen to any music that's not on the radio. That's one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:38 am ]
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Mikes! wrote:
I don't think you listen to any music that's not on the radio. That's one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read.
I've heard plenty of pop and country, and hated almost all of it. If you like those, that's fine, I just said I don't and explained why.
Author:  Biscuithead [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:40 am ]
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You can't call someone ignorant just because they have a different point of view to you. Yes, pop music can sometimes have meaningful lyrics, but it is usually cliched. Also rock artists are usually more free to express their own opinion, as they may be less concerned with public opinion, so the point is valid.
Author:  The Noid [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:41 am ]
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I don't dislike pop and country because of the lyrucs, I dislike it because it sounds like crap.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:42 am ]
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Biscuithead wrote:
Also rock artists are usually more free to express their own opinion, as they may be less concerned with public opinion,
And because they're more likely to write their own music... which is pretty crucial to expressing your opinion.
Author:  iand93 [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:43 am ]
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I like rock because it rocks. I don't like christian "rock", pop, or modern country because they don't.
Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:47 am ]
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Precisely.
Author:  Mikes! [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:50 am ]
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Edit: Whatever, this argument is stupid. I don't need to continue it.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Mikes! wrote:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Mikes! wrote:
I don't think you listen to any music that's not on the radio. That's one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read.
I've heard plenty of pop and country, and hated almost all of it. If you like those, that's fine, I just said I don't and explained why.
You asserted that all pop and country songs respectively have a narrow lyrical range, which is a really ridiculous thought
How is that any more ignorant than the last 40 "I don't like Christian rock because it sounds bad and they don't know how to rock and it's a bad idea" posts?
Quote:
considering that music is only defined by how it sounds, and not what it says.
No, it depends on who you are. I like music for what it says as well as what it sounds, which I think is why I like rock better.
Quote:
No. It's not. You don't seem to understand that anyone can write any song, regardless of the style.
But pop artists often don't even write anything at all; their producers do.
Author:  Mikes! [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:06 am ]
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Mikes! wrote:
Edit: Whatever, this argument is stupid. I don't need to continue it.
Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:44 am ]
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Yeah, this is getting way off topic. The edit to your post above my last wasn't there when I started writing, and I was too in a hurry to go back and read the thread after I had submitted.
Author:  MikeMcG [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:14 am ]
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I listen to music for both it's lyrical and musical parts. I can listen to a song with bad lyrics and good music and vice versa (to a limit). I find that I, an atheist, can enjoy Christian Rock (or more so Christian Ska like Five Iron Frenzy in my case) purely because some Christian Ska has quality music. I even find myself enjoying the lyrics as well as the music from epic Christian songs because I can enjoy the fact that they're epic.

So I'd say some Christian music is Atheist approved.
Author:  STupendous7 [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Exhibit A wrote:
You do realize that a lot of the psalms were written as music, right? Plus how then do you explain Psalm 150 3-5?

Quote:
Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals.

There is no example of the use of musical instruments for worship in the New Testament and the Old Testament uses of instruments in worship were specifically tied to the ceremonial laws of the Temple in Jerusalem (like the Old Testament sacrificial system) and are not applicable in the church.
Author:  Inverse Tiger [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yup. God would never want us to use our gifts to praise him if he didn't tell us to explicitly.... But seriously, that just seems weird man. There's a big difference between the old order of sacrifice, which Christians were explicitly told had changed, and music in worship, which the New Testament doesn't say anywhere is a bad thing. Just because the NT doesn't mention it doesn't mean it's wrong.

But anyway, I just remembered my favorite song to rock out to (Neutral Milk Hotel's "King of Carrot Flowers Parts 2 & 3") starts "I love you Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ I love you, yes I do." It's not supposed to be a Christian song though... and even in the liner notes the singer wrote in there that he didn't mean it as any kind of statement of support for Christianity but for the idea of Jesus and spirituality in general. But I think it shows that extremely awesome Christian rock is possible in theory.
Author:  Capt. Ido Nos [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Inverse Tiger wrote:
But I think it shows that extremely awesome Christian rock is possible in theory.

I just like to continue to point out the general liking of Five Iron Frenzy by this forum to show that it is possible.

On a similar note, I think one can only remake certain songs/hymns/psalms so many times before I gets reduced from amazing to drivel.
Author:  Didymus [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
STupendous7 wrote:
There is no example of the use of musical instruments for worship in the New Testament and the Old Testament uses of instruments in worship were specifically tied to the ceremonial laws of the Temple in Jerusalem (like the Old Testament sacrificial system) and are not applicable in the church.

So? Can you cite me any specific prohibition of the use of musical instruments in Christian worship from Scripture? If you cannot, then you have no case. The Psalms have already set a precedent for their use, so in order to dismiss them, you must have a specific prohibition.

While it is true that the Psalms were related to Temple worship, the fact is that the early Church continued to use the Psalms in their worship as well. And I do recall the New Testament commending Christians to use the Psalms (Eph 5:19), so your statement that the Psalms are not for Christian worship is false.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:27 am ]
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Marshmallow Roast wrote:
Yes, I can't comprehend at all why anyone would believe in a god. To me, it seems as impossible as the Tooth Fairy.


And I can't comprehend why someone WOULDN'T believe in a god. The entire belief system seems hideously depressing and hopeless to me.

I'm also pretty sure you want me to become an atheist, too.
Author:  Rusty [ Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Shippinator Mandy wrote:
And I can't comprehend why someone WOULDN'T believe in a god.


Seems like you're trying to turn her into a Christian, if you think that the way she's talking you means she wants to make you an atheist. :\
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Rusty wrote:
Shippinator Mandy wrote:
And I can't comprehend why someone WOULDN'T believe in a god.


Seems like you're trying to turn her into a Christian, if you think that the way she's talking you means she wants to make you an atheist. :\


I'm not. I just don't understand it.

She, on the other hand, honestly seems to think that it's "smarter" to not believe in God.
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