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'08 Elections!!!
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13311
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Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Ju Ju Master wrote:
...if I understand correctly.

I don't think so. You don't necessarily need to be a US citzen for the constitutional rights to apply to you. After all, you can still get in trouble for killing an illegal immigrant.

Author:  furrykef [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Even if the Constitutional right to a fair trial doesn't apply as far as international law is concerned, it's still a fundamental human right. If you don't give 'em a fair trial, how do you know they're guilty?

- Kef

Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

furrykef wrote:
Even if the Constitutional right to a fair trial doesn't apply as far as international law is concerned, it's still a fundamental human right. If you don't give 'em a fair trial, how do you know they're guilty?

- Kef

Tell that to Sacco and Vanzetti.

Author:  furrykef [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Well, naturally, Sacco and Vanzetti didn't have a fair trial. They had a trial, but not a fair one. So that doesn't really apply.

Also, at least they had a fighting chance at getting a fair trial. Better than no chance at all, I think.

- Kef

Author:  Lunar Jesty [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

So Edwards and Giuliani both dropped out today, leaving us with five viable frontrunners. Giuliani's exit won't make much of a difference, I think, except in New York, but Edward's departure is pretty important. Whoever he endorses is pretty likely to win big on 2/5.

Author:  The Noid [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

I want Edwards to go "nyuk, you can all rot" and not endorse anybody.

Author:  lahimatoa [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

If McCain wins the Republican nomination (and there's not much of a reason to doubt that), it will the climax to "conservatism"'s slide to the left over the past eight years.

Author:  MooKoo [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

StrongRad wrote:
There's nothing inherently racist about being from "the south".

MooKoo wrote:
Barack doesn't have the greatest history, plus his dads a Muslim Radical. Anyone recall what Al Queada stated? They will destroy us from the inside, I'm not sayin' its Barack, I'm just sayin' this isn't a time to risk anything. Terrorism is real and a threat, its why we're in Iraq now, people don't seem to realize this I think at times.

I hope you don't believe that whole Muslim thing.
Most of the things in that email have been thoroughly debunked, almost to the point of insanity.

I know it doesn't mean you're inherently racist, but where I come from, it does. Everyone here is racist. And to think, in this same town, Martin Luther King, Jr. began his march.

I have no clue what e-mail you're talking about by the way.
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
...if I understand correctly.

I don't think so. You don't necessarily need to be a US citzen for the constitutional rights to apply to you. After all, you can still get in trouble for killing an illegal immigrant.

That's because its against the law for you to kill. Its not against the law for him to die.



McCain is a friggin' Bad word bag. Just in case no one noticed, he has "Washington Politics" written all over his face.

Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:
McCain is a friggin' Bad word bag. Just in case no one noticed, he has "Washington Politics" written all over his face.

I think exactly the opposite.
The fact that he is willing to work with Republicans AND Democrats and appears to be interested in COMPROMISE means he's the exact opposite of Washington "I agree with this, but the other side likes it so I have to hate it" politics.

McCain is interested in serving the citizens of his country, not politics.

Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

I'm not fond of McCain myself. I lost all respect for Giuliani when he dropped out and put all his support behind him.

Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Ju Ju Master wrote:
...if I understand correctly.

I don't think so. You don't necessarily need to be a US citzen for the constitutional rights to apply to you. After all, you can still get in trouble for killing an illegal immigrant.

That's because its against the law for you to kill. Its not against the law for him to die.
It's not against the law for anyone to die... my point was, if you're in America, you might not have full citizen rights, but you definitely have rights.

Author:  The Noid [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:

I have no clue what e-mail you're talking about by the way.


The e-mail is where all of that came from, I presume. Never actually seen it myself, but it sounds like it'd fit in there.

Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

lahimatoa wrote:
If McCain wins the Republican nomination (and there's not much of a reason to doubt that), it will the climax to "conservatism"'s slide to the left over the past eight years.
That's because the Christian Right shot themselves in the foot and are losing influence by the day.

Author:  Mikes! [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

StrongRad wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
Question. To anyone that supports Barrack Obama.

Why do you support him?

I like him because he is not a member of "the old guard".
His lack of experience with "the way things are done" is pretty refreshing.

Finally (and most important): He recognizes half of the country belongs to a party other than his own and appears willing to work with leaders from the Republican party.
I don't think that's a good way to vote for the president considering you've just about described any citizen of the US. Are you at least aware of his policies?

I'm really cynical about people getting all riled up in this "change" buzzword business. I don't think things would be very different than the way they are now with a Democratic president. All of societies' problems seem to come from the system itself, not who runs it.

Author:  MooKoo [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
I don't think so. You don't necessarily need to be a US citzen for the constitutional rights to apply to you. After all, you can still get in trouble for killing an illegal immigrant.

That's because its against the law for you to kill. Its not against the law for him to die.
It's not against the law for anyone to die... my point was, if you're in America, you might not have full citizen rights, but you definitely have rights.

Yah', the right to shut your whining mouth and go back to your own country and try to get them to change their system instead of coming over here and trying to change our system.

@McCain Supporters: Oh yes, and in case you didn't know this, McCain supports amnesty for the illegals. If he cared so much about protecting his people, he'd want the illegals out. I mean a lot of crime comes from all of them being here.

As far as terrorist goes, they have the right to die. That's pretty much it. If you're associated with them, you don't have the right to a fair trial, you have the right to death. It doesn't matter if you were just cookin' up some coffee for Osama himself, you don't deserve a fair trial.

Author:  The Noid [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Everybody and anybody on American soil deserves a fair trial.

I support amnesty for illegal immigrants, so long as they learn English and pay some fines. The ones that commit crimes aren't the majority, I'm sure.

Author:  ed 'lim' smilde [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
MooKoo wrote:
That's because its against the law for you to kill. Its not against the law for him to die.
It's not against the law for anyone to die... my point was, if you're in America, you might not have full citizen rights, but you definitely have rights.

Yah', the right to shut your whining mouth and go back to your own country and try to get them to change their system instead of coming over here and trying to change our system.

What about people visiting the country? Surely you think they have more rights that that... Like I said, constitutional rights are not all limited to citizens.
Quote:
@McCain Supporters: Oh yes, and in case you didn't know this, McCain supports amnesty for the illegals. If he cared so much about protecting his people, he'd want the illegals out. I mean a lot of crime comes from all of them being here.
Are you sure about that? Ontheissues.org and debate videos seem to say otherwise.

Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

The Noid wrote:
E\\ support amnesty for illegal immigrants, so long as they learn English and pay some fines. The ones that commit crimes aren't the majority, I'm sure.

They've all committed crimes. Hence the term "illegal".

Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:
@McCain Supporters: Oh yes, and in case you didn't know this, McCain supports amnesty for the illegals. If he cared so much about protecting his people, he'd want the illegals out.
He doesn't support full-out amnesty, only a pathway to citizenship. His position as someone who has a grip on reality enables him to see that there is no way to deport every person here illegally. It also helps him see that unless you secure the borders first, kicking illegals out will do no good, they'll just come right back.


Quote:
As far as terrorist goes, they have the right to die. That's pretty much it. If you're associated with them, you don't have the right to a fair trial, you have the right to death. It doesn't matter if you were just cookin' up some coffee for Osama himself, you don't deserve a fair trial.

From a Bush-Cheney fanboy, this might sound weird, but I think you're completely wrong. I am in full support of trying terror suspects and giving them a fair trial. It sets a precedent that shows the world we're better than those scumbags.
If said trial results in a guilty verdict, I am in favor of a tall oak tree with a short rope.

I'm sure we're in agreement on what happens with the guilty verdict, amiright?

Also: What the pfargl!?!?
Clearly those screws Coulter had loose have completely fallen out.

Author:  The Noid [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Ju Ju Master wrote:
The Noid wrote:
E\\ support amnesty for illegal immigrants, so long as they learn English and pay some fines. The ones that commit crimes aren't the majority, I'm sure.

They've all committed crimes. Hence the term "illegal".


I think Netzen means drug dealers and rapists and murderers. I know it's illegal, but how many illegal immigrants did we have way back when?

McCain's idea of a path to citizenship is what I was getting at and sounds like one of the best options for me. Somebody specific said something about taking English courses and paying fines, but I can't remember who.

Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

I'm not totally in favor of the "pathway" thing McCain likes, but it is the only realistic way to deal with the illegals. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them have to wait in line like everyone else (or never be allowed back), but let's be realistic, folks. It ain't gonna happen.

Author:  The Noid [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

So. Alan Keyes.

He's not even trying, and according to the lovely Wikipedia, he was never in the race to begin with.

I call him or Mike Gravel as next drop out. Then it's Ron Paul time.

Author:  HHFOV [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

No, Ron Paul has enough money to keep on running for the next 124 years.

Author:  The Noid [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

But does he have enough support?

I can't really see Hillary or Obama dropping out at all. Huckabee, McCain, and Romney all have enough to keep them running (for them, at least). Ron Paul's just not getting anything this time.

Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
No, Ron Paul has enough money to keep on running for the next 124 years.

Money doesn't matter if you're not going to get votes.

He's the Republicans' version of Dennis Kucinich. He's going to keep chugging along, but nobody really cares.

Author:  HHFOV [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

Isn't Alan Keyes still technically running?

Author:  furrykef [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

MooKoo wrote:
As far as terrorist goes, they have the right to die. That's pretty much it. If you're associated with them, you don't have the right to a fair trial, you have the right to death. It doesn't matter if you were just cookin' up some coffee for Osama himself, you don't deserve a fair trial.


Uh, no. Not everybody in Gitmo was caught red-handed with other terrorists. You can't just imprison somebody merely because somebody says they were involved with terrorism. How would you like that to happen to you?

- Kef

Author:  The Noid [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
Isn't Alan Keyes still technically running?


I think so.

Author:  AbuGrape45 [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

The Noid wrote:
Everybody and anybody on American soil deserves a fair trial.

I support amnesty for illegal immigrants, so long as they learn English and pay some fines. The ones that commit crimes aren't the majority, I'm sure.

Yes they are. They're breaking laws from the second they cross the U.S-Mexico border. I won't ever support illegal immigrants, because they're all criminals who take everything from United States citizens and receive no punishment.

Author:  The Noid [ Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '08 Elections!!!

AbuGrape45 wrote:
Yes they are. They're breaking laws from the second they cross the U.S-Mexico border. I won't ever support illegal immigrants, because they're all criminals who take everything from United States citizens and receive no punishment.


Quote:
I think Netzen MooKoo means drug dealers and rapists and murderers.


Of course they all commit crimes, but I doubt that the majority of them are gun-running drug-dealing serial rapists with six dead bodies in the trunk of a stolen van.

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