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Who is you choice for President?
Poll ended at Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:02 am
Barack Obama 73%  73%  [ 8 ]
John McCain 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Third Party Candidate 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 11
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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:55 pm 
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Really, Mike. Can you change your arbitrary stance against education or at least articulate it with some information to back it up?

Seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:48 am 
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I'm a high school dropout now with a 3.8 GPA and scholarship in film school. High school was the roughest years of my life intellectually. No where was I encouraged to learn anything of value; merely, I was just supposed to pass my standardized tests and get into college. I may as well have just taken some SAT prep classes and called it a day. Rarely was the "why" of any information given to us discussed. We were all expected to just take in the information and regurgitate it.


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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:46 am 
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Mikes! wrote:
I'm a high school dropout now with a 3.8 GPA and scholarship in film school. High school was the roughest years of my life intellectually. No where was I encouraged to learn anything of value; merely, I was just supposed to pass my standardized tests and get into college. I may as well have just taken some SAT prep classes and called it a day. Rarely was the "why" of any information given to us discussed. We were all expected to just take in the information and regurgitate it.


Heaven forbid you take in some arbitrary knowledge purely for the sake of learning it.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:01 am 
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Jitka wrote:
Mikes! wrote:
I'm a high school dropout now with a 3.8 GPA and scholarship in film school. High school was the roughest years of my life intellectually. No where was I encouraged to learn anything of value; merely, I was just supposed to pass my standardized tests and get into college. I may as well have just taken some SAT prep classes and called it a day. Rarely was the "why" of any information given to us discussed. We were all expected to just take in the information and regurgitate it.


Heaven forbid you take in some arbitrary knowledge purely for the sake of learning it.

Mikes! is right on this. Regurgitating data is pointless. That's why we have encyclopedias and such. Schools should work on critical thinking more than just plain "memorize this".

My curriculum would be summed up as "we know this, this, and this. We know how they are related. What would happen if x suddenly became y. Would this relation still hold? Would it change? How would it change?".

The classes I had in college that I liked most were along these lines.

My middle school tried, but they went too far.
The system they went to could (and often did) give more credit to a wrong answer, elaborately explained than they would to a succinct, but correct answer.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:15 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Jitka wrote:
Mikes! wrote:
I'm a high school dropout now with a 3.8 GPA and scholarship in film school. High school was the roughest years of my life intellectually. No where was I encouraged to learn anything of value; merely, I was just supposed to pass my standardized tests and get into college. I may as well have just taken some SAT prep classes and called it a day. Rarely was the "why" of any information given to us discussed. We were all expected to just take in the information and regurgitate it.


Heaven forbid you take in some arbitrary knowledge purely for the sake of learning it.

Mikes! is right on this. Regurgitating data is pointless. That's why we have encyclopedias and such. Schools should work on critical thinking more than just plain "memorize this".


I wish High school was more than this, which is why I'm so glad I just finished. But so long as No Child Left Behind is in place, that's just not likely. Gah!

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:22 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
The system they went to could (and often did) give more credit to a wrong answer, elaborately explained than they would to a succinct, but short answer.


You mean "succinct, but right", right?

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:29 am 
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Quote:
Mikes! is right on this. Regurgitating data is pointless. That's why we have encyclopedias and such. Schools should work on critical thinking more than just plain "memorize this".


Agreed. Especially in today's information age, when a three-second Google search can retrieve information on anything, being able to make sense of this information overload through critical thinking is even more important.

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But so long as No Child Left Behind is in place, that's just not likely. Gah!


Lulz... I graduated from high school long before No Child Left Behind, and trust me, it was 99.9% memorization and regurgitation.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:03 am 
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furrykef wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
The system they went to could (and often did) give more credit to a wrong answer, elaborately explained than they would to a succinct, but short answer.


You mean "succinct, but right", right?
Yep. I fixed it.

I had professors in grad school that were against "memorization" when it came to things like constants, equations, etc. "Knowing" a constant can get you in all kinds of trouble when you miss something like an order of magnitude or a significant figure.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:23 pm 
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lahimatoa wrote:
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But so long as No Child Left Behind is in place, that's just not likely. Gah!


Lulz... I graduated from high school long before No Child Left Behind, and trust me, it was 99.9% memorization and regurgitation.


I'm not saying NCLB is the only reason, I'm just saying there's no chance of any change from this status quo with it in place.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:38 am 
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Gotta love Jesse Jackson.

I'm just waiting for him to say it was taken out of context...
Not only does Obama have to deal with self-absorbed Hilary fans (that can't seem to get over themselves for the good of their party), crazy racist hillbillies that seem set on painting him as "too black" or a "moslum", and whatever the GOP is dreaming up, but now he has to deal with a leading black activist...

I almost want to vote for him now, just for everything he's putting up with.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:39 am 
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^What did he call the Jews again?

Good times. 1992. I think.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:40 am 
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The Noid wrote:
^What did he call the Jews again?

Good times. 1992. I think.

LOL, Hymietown...

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:45 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Gotta love Jesse Jackson.

I'm just waiting for him to say it was taken out of context...
Not only does Obama have to deal with self-absorbed Hilary fans (that can't seem to get over themselves for the good of their party), crazy racist hillbillies that seem set on painting him as "too black" or a "moslum", and whatever the GOP is dreaming up, but now he has to deal with a leading black activist...

I almost want to vote for him now, just for everything he's putting up with.

Who does Jessie Jackson think he is? The king of all Black People?

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:00 am 
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You mean he isn't? :O

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:06 am 
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Jackson's a flaming racist. That he's a major representative of the black community is a major problem, IMO.

I also like how he only apologized after being told Fox would air his comments. "Oh, I got caught, so I'm totally sorry now."

And Obama's all like "No problem, dude."

Can you imagine if a leader in the white community had said that? Oh wait, there's not a white community? My bad.

Um, what if a white McCain staffer had said that? He'd be drawn and quartered and his entrails would be fed to his children.

But because Jackson is black, free pass.

The double standard is bad for America.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:13 pm 
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^I completely argee with you. I do see though, that people are starting to realize the double standard. I've got some hope that people will figure out they're being ridiculous and over sensitive.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:52 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
And Obama's all like "No problem, dude."
I think Obama did this because of the clout Jackson has with the black community (or supposed clout, anyway. I don't know any black people that actually like Jackson or Sharpton).

I REALLY wish someone would hold Jackson to the standard he holds everyone else (that he doesn't agree with) to... Had Don Imus have said "it was taken out of context", do you really think the rev. would let him slide?
I doubt it.

As a married man, I can sort of understand Obama forgiving Jackson for this. Barrack is married. Any attempt to do what Jackson said would be futile since it has already been done (when he said "I do").

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:54 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Can you imagine if a leader in the white community had said that? Oh wait, there's not a white community? My bad.



ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!
This entire country is one big giant white community, and there are a few groups of people out there who don't have white skin and don't see themselves or their lives represented in the media the way white people and their lives are. And while the black leadership leaves much to be desired, can you tell me that the white leadership (by which I mean all the white elected officials, and pretty much everyone with a talk radio show, amongst others) is really much better? It really isn't a "black leadership" thing, but leadership in general which has taken a horrible turn, where people who seek power and fame are the ones who put themselves in positions of leadership, while the rest of us sit by and let it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:28 am 
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Amorican wrote:
lahimatoa wrote:
Can you imagine if a leader in the white community had said that? Oh wait, there's not a white community? My bad.



ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!

(Hint: Yes.)


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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:05 pm 
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There is no white community. There is no candidate or leader who distinctly looks after the rights of white people.

And if there was, they'd be automatically labeled a hardcore racist, regardless of what he or she stood for or said or did.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:00 pm 
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lahimatoa wrote:
There is no white community. There is no candidate or leader who distinctly looks after the rights of white people.

And if there was, they'd be automatically labeled a hardcore racist, regardless of what he or she stood for or said or did.

I cannot disagree with this statement.
The "majority" is not allowed to be proud of who they are. Any attempt at this is treated as an affront to anyone not in that group.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:30 am 
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That always bugged me when I was in high school... I think a fairly extreme example can be found in my high school (assuming the image is still there, but it probably is). Our school's sports team was called the Vikings, so we often represented ourselves as Vikings. So one day, a bunch of students as part of some project or other painted a big Viking on the wall. But the Viking they painted was black, and there were no black Vikings -- in fact, Vikings and Scandinavians are pretty much an archetypical example of "pure" white people. (Hitler considered them to be even purer than Germans.) My favorite counterexample: what if somebody somewhere painted a big white African? How would that look?

These days I just let it go. As Strong Bad's conscience said, ya gotta pick your battles.

- Kef

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:52 am 
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These days I just let it go


Because you're afraid of being branded a racist. That's how certain groups try to restrict free speech.... by making others afraid of being called a bigot or racist or whatever.

It's obviously fairly effective.

And for the record, I don't think a painting of a black viking would really bother me.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:05 am 
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Since we are down to the candidates, I have added a poll. Who ya got? It's going to run until election night and I allowed re-voting. Also sticky'd and do you smell what Barack is cooking?

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:10 am 
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This is a horrible election for conservatives. McCain is okay on some issues, but way too left on way too many. My instinct is to go third party, but I know that means Obama takes it (though he's likely to anyway).

That said, I firmly believe Obama's $1 trillion MORE in spending and his attempt to bring us to socialized medicine and do what he can to smash capitalism in this country will bring us so far down as a nation that we'll be looking to good conservative leadership in 2012.

Romney/Jindal in four years?

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:12 am 
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I think the era of conservative dominance in the Republican party is over.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:15 am 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
I think the era of conservative dominance in the Republican party is over.


FOREVER! Mwahahahaha!

So essentially you're saying America is left with liberal and liberal-lite as its choices for the rest of eternity?

I can't believe that.

EDIT: For Obama supporters, how are you feeling about his recent... um... flexibility on several important issues? Giving immunity to phone companies involved in wiretapping after he said he wouldn't? Refusing public funding for his campaign after saying he would? Suddenly saying he'll talk to the commanders on the ground in Iraq about what to do instead of just pulling the troops out over 16 months, beginning immediately after he's elected.

Phew. That's a lot of maneuvering. Maybe Obama's not the transcendent Messiah y'all thought he was. Maybe he's just willing to do or say whatever will get him elected.

Just like everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:53 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
EDIT: For Obama supporters, how are you feeling about his recent... um... flexibility on several important issues? Giving immunity to phone companies involved in wiretapping after he said he wouldn't?


Not a big deal. The important thing would be stopping the illegal wiretapping altogether.

lahimatoa wrote:
Refusing public funding for his campaign after saying he would?


Who cares?

lahimatoa wrote:
Suddenly saying he'll talk to the commanders on the ground in Iraq about what to do instead of just pulling the troops out over 16 months, beginning immediately after he's elected.


An issue of responsibility. There's no point in talking to the commanding officers and getting their opinion on what to do in Iraq if you plan to just ignore them. What's important is that Obama recognizes that the Iraq war was unnecessary and actually rather stupid, and that he plans to have American troops out of the country within his term, rather than keeping them there for McCain's 100+ years. I know, I know, it wouldn't be a hundred years of fighting, just bases like we have in Germany or Japan, but I still think the American people want nothing to do with that country anymore.

To be honest, I think the American people could not care less about what happens in Iraq after the U.S. troops leave, which is why Congress' approval rating is so low. The people expected a Democratic majority to bring the war to a swift end when that was never going to happen.


Obama is not going to be the be-all, end-all best president ever, but even if he turns out to be a regular politician like the rest of them, does that mean that the causes he stands for are any less valid? I don't think so. Compared to the alternative, he's the best thing we can hope for.

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:08 am 
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So what you're saying is it's not a big deal that Obama's gone back on his word on a few issues. I've talked to some Democrats who feel the opposite, but whatever works for you. :)

Quote:
What's important is that Obama recognizes that the Iraq war was unnecessary and actually rather stupid, and that he plans to have American troops out of the country within his term, rather than keeping them there for McCain's 100+ years.


So Obama will remove every single American troop from Iraq within the first two years of his presidency? Somehow I doubt that. You skillfully managed to avoid mentioning it, but the violence in Iraq is waaaay down. Iraqi soldiers are in control of almost half of the provinces in the country, and American soldiers are getting bored sitting around. Some are requesting to be sent to Afghanistan, where action is going on.

I believe Obama will stay in Iraq until it's the intelligent time to go, exactly as McCain will if he's elected. All of Obama's nonsense about "getting our troops out now" was just talk to get past Hillary in the primary.

And if you're fine with realizing Obama is not the Messiah, then I have no further arguments. Too many people are fainting at his rallies and changing their middle names to Hussein. The atmosphere around Obama is becoming a personality cult, and frankly, that's a bit creepy.

EDIT: And a response to BTG's post about how conservativism is dead, why are the five top talk radio programs all very conservative shows? Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Beck, Ingraham... someone out there is listening. Just because we're not being represented in national politics right now doesn't mean we don't exist. :)

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 Post subject: Re: '08 Elections!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:00 am 
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lahimatoa wrote:
Because you're afraid of being branded a racist. That's how certain groups try to restrict free speech.... by making others afraid of being called a bigot or racist or whatever.


It's more of a matter that there are bigger things to worry about. For instance, minorities face real oppression... not being able to say much about a black Viking isn't really a big deal by comparison.

lahimatoa wrote:
And for the record, I don't think a painting of a black viking would really bother me.


The painting of the black Viking didn't bother me. It's really the one-way-ness of it that bothered me. You can make white people black, but not black people white. It's a double standard.

- Kef

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