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| Minimum Wage http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13324 |
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| Author: | HHFOV [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Minimum Wage |
Discussion split from '08 Elections Well, the only one I actually know at least a bit about is the minimum wage, so I'll address that. If you make people pay everyone a certain amount, the employers will just fire them if they're not worth what they're required to pay them. Thus, it's better for them to be able to lower it. And if the employees don't like it, it's not like it's forced labor. They can GTFO and go to another place that offers higher pay. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: '08 Elections!!! |
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote: Well, the only one I actually know at least a bit about is the minimum wage, so I'll address that. If you make people pay everyone a certain amount, the employers will just fire them if they're not worth what they're required to pay them. Thus, it's better for them to be able to lower it. And if the employees don't like it, it's not like it's forced labor. They can GTFO and go to another place that offers higher pay. Exactly. The market works things like this out. It's capitalism. If someone's willing to work for 3 cents an hour, great, why should the government try to stop them? I don't know much about the other ones, and unfortunately most of my searches have brought up very little information, so I'm gonna need to look at those a little more. But right from the get-go I can see Paul's reasoning on this one. |
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| Author: | Lunar Jesty [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: '08 Elections!!! |
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote: Well, the only one I actually know at least a bit about is the minimum wage, so I'll address that. If you make people pay everyone a certain amount, the employers will just fire them if they're not worth what they're required to pay them. Thus, it's better for them to be able to lower it. And if the employees don't like it, it's not like it's forced labor. They can GTFO and go to another place that offers higher pay. (Please merge this into a new thread about minimum wage, A-Team mod person.) How much experience have you had being poor and hunting for a job? Granted, I've had none either, but there are people who are barely able to survive on current minimum wage. Why do you think they don't GTFO and find a higher paying job? Because the high-paying jobs for the uneducated are very few and far between. I mean, you try getting a job that pays anything over minimum wage without a high-school diploma, and you don't get anywhere. And I don't get your first point. If you make a minimum wage, employers still need labor. You can't fire all your employees. And even if you do, there will be plenty of other applicants that can feel comfortable applying to a job that will give them a steady paycheck. |
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| Author: | HHFOV [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
And the answer to all those questions is: competition. The competition that when one person leaves because of the wage, there will be another waiting who is willing to work for that low. The competition that, for an employer struggling to find employees, there will be different employers willing to pay higher wages. |
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| Author: | ed 'lim' smilde [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote: The competition that, for an employer struggling to find employees, there will be different employers willing to pay higher wages. But the way things are going right now, employers aren't struggling to find employees. The minimum wage is sort of a way to lower poverty, because it makes sure that everyone with a job is paid a good amount. Minimum wages also keep the jobs from people who don't need the money as much, too. For example, as a high-schooler who still works at home, I'd be willing and able to work my job for much less. But I'd be forcing the rest of my co-workers, who are actually trying to make a living off of that money, to do the same. You can't set the minimum wage too high, though, or unemployment levels will start to decrease and small businesses will have a hard time starting. Which is something my governor is doing a horrigible job at.
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| Author: | Didymus [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
My main reason for supporting a minimum wage, and keeping it at a decent level: 1. If you and your family are starving, you're more likely to take whatever work is available (either that or turn to crime). 2. The employment/labor equation favors the employer over the employee. A company is less likely to be drastically effected by loss of a work force than employees are by the loss of work. The only exception would be those industries that have unions, but let's face it: most companies that rely on minimum wage labor are typically industries without unions. This unfair advantage means that an employer can rob their employees of their rightful wages. I seriously doubt that any profit-driven industry would ever choose to pay their employees what their worth if they could get away with paying them significantly less. 3. All this basically means this: doing away with the minimum wage requirement would be taking food out of the mouths of hungry people. Period. And for no other reason than that employers can get away with it. 4. If quality of work is an issue (and remember, in a profit-driven industry, it's not quality that is of primary concern, but the bottom line: the dollars), there's an easy solution: allow companies to maintain the right to hire and fire people according to documented work performance. |
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| Author: | Biscuithead [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
I think any Australian would take one look at this thread and instantly of John Howard's (our old prime minister) new IR laws. These laws did not actually lower the minimum wage but effectively allowed many companies to pay their workers a lot less. Workers were outraged at this. To defend himself, Howard promised that only new employees would be affected by the laws, and people employed before a certain date would not be forced to take less money. So what did a lot of companies do? Fired their workers and re-hired them at a lower pay rate. Eventually this led to workplace conditions becoming so bad that the laws were revised and employers made to give back worker benefits, and led to widespread dissatisfaction with Howard and he was voted out of office at the next election almost solely because of these laws. Now our new PM is getting rid of the laws completely because they have been nothing but trouble. I'm not sure if this does actually relate to the American situation with potential minimum wage lowering, but I thought it would help to show how bad things can be for the government if they choose to give people less money. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
I think it applies. Because it's exactly what the American corporate machine would do if there was a change in the laws: starve their current workers to death to save a few bucks and increase dividends for the fat slob executives and shareholders so they can sip higher quality brandy and smoke more expensive cigars. |
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| Author: | Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
How dare you! I make minimum wage! |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Minimum Wage |
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: How dare you! I make minimum wage! Yes, but you're not in your mid to late 20's, still living with your parents because you chose to goof off instead of actually paying attention in school.I like the idea of a minimum wage, however I don't see it, as some do, as a cure for poverty. The money to pay workers has to come from somewhere, and that's not going to be from a company's bottom line. It's going to be passed on to the consumer by way of higher prices. Higher prices means it costs more to buy the same thing you used to buy for less. It's called inflation. You could set minimum wage to $3 billion/hour and you'd have billionaires living in poverty. |
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