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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:11 am 
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Parlod wrote:
Well said. You knew how to word my opinion, when I did not.


:) Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:47 am 
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TheFacelessEvil wrote:
JohnTheTinyCowboy wrote:
You wouldn't be removing the people themselves, just their genetic problems. If you found out your kid was going to have Down's syndrome or whatever, and were told it could easily be cured, wouldn't you do it?


Personally, I wouldn't. It's just my personal belief that messing with that sort of stuff is kinda like 'cheating'. Despite 'normal society's' standards, I truly don't believe there's anything wrong with kids with Down's Syndrome. It's just a different state of being that we're slowly becoming more adapted to. Anyway, if I had enough money to get genetic engineering, I think it'd be better spent learning about my disabled child. That's just me, though.


Exactly. Besides, who's to say what's "wrong" with a person?
I saw some film from the 30's about using genetic stocks to cure the wrongs of the world, but I didn't understand it because it was in German...

Sure, it might be "slippery slope", but if we start getting rid of things like Down's Syndrome or Autism by screwing with people's genes, whose to say we don't try to cure things like "gay"
(if there's a gene that causes people to be gay), or obesity, or shortness, or brown hair?..

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:54 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
Exactly. Besides, who's to say what's "wrong" with a person?
I saw some film from the 30's about using genetic stocks to cure the wrongs of the world, but I didn't understand it because it was in German...

Sure, it might be "slippery slope", but if we start getting rid of things like Down's Syndrome or Autism by screwing with people's genes, whose to say we don't try to cure things like "gay"
(if there's a gene that causes people to be gay), or obesity, or shortness, or brown hair?..


Agreed! 100%! ... especially considering I'm all four of those last things you mentioned. haha!

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:56 am 
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TheFacelessEvil wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Exactly. Besides, who's to say what's "wrong" with a person?
I saw some film from the 30's about using genetic stocks to cure the wrongs of the world, but I didn't understand it because it was in German...

Sure, it might be "slippery slope", but if we start getting rid of things like Down's Syndrome or Autism by screwing with people's genes, whose to say we don't try to cure things like "gay"
(if there's a gene that causes people to be gay), or obesity, or shortness, or brown hair?..


Agreed! 100%! ... especially considering I'm all four of those last things you mentioned. haha!

I'm glad I didn't add "alcoholism". I don't want to make anyone an alcoholic (although alcoholism WOULD be a good thing for GE to fix).

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:57 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
I'm glad I didn't add "alcoholism". I don't want to make anyone an alcoholic.


Dangit, I'm that too...

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:05 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
TheFacelessEvil wrote:
JohnTheTinyCowboy wrote:
You wouldn't be removing the people themselves, just their genetic problems. If you found out your kid was going to have Down's syndrome or whatever, and were told it could easily be cured, wouldn't you do it?


Personally, I wouldn't. It's just my personal belief that messing with that sort of stuff is kinda like 'cheating'. Despite 'normal society's' standards, I truly don't believe there's anything wrong with kids with Down's Syndrome. It's just a different state of being that we're slowly becoming more adapted to. Anyway, if I had enough money to get genetic engineering, I think it'd be better spent learning about my disabled child. That's just me, though.


Exactly. Besides, who's to say what's "wrong" with a person?
I saw some film from the 30's about using genetic stocks to cure the wrongs of the world, but I didn't understand it because it was in German...

Sure, it might be "slippery slope", but if we start getting rid of things like Down's Syndrome or Autism by screwing with people's genes, whose to say we don't try to cure things like "gay"
(if there's a gene that causes people to be gay), or obesity, or shortness, or brown hair?..


It's one thing to screw with personality traits, and another thing entirely to cure diseases. If you were told your kid would have a genetic predisposition to throat cancer or Alzheimer's or Lou Gehrig's disease or something, and it could be cured, you can't tell me you'd let them get the disease. That would just be cruel.

I also vote we cure obesity and alcoholism, those are also diseases. And with America's collective lazy butt not making any efforts to get healthy, maybe the only way back to health is by cheating.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:09 am 
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JohnTheTinyCowboy wrote:
It's one thing to screw with personality traits, and another thing entirely to cure diseases. If you were told your kid would have a genetic predisposition to throat cancer or Alzheimer's or Lou Gehrig's disease or something, and it could be cured, you can't tell me you'd let them get the disease. That would just be cruel.

I also vote we cure obesity and alcoholism, those are also diseases. And with America's collective lazy butt not making any efforts to get healthy, maybe the only way back to health is by cheating.


I tenatively agree on the disease point. The reason I say 'tenatively', is because in a 'perfect' society, people will be able to label all sorts of 'flaws' as 'diseases' to make it qualify for change.

Ultimately, I don't believe in making the perfect world. I also don't like the 'curing obesity' thing, either. I like big butts and I cannot lie...

Or alchoholism, either. Geez, take away my Saturdays why don't you...

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:12 am 
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Alcoholism is a disease....

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:48 am 
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StrongRad wrote:
You know, I see that argument all the time, but I don't buy it. Sure, there might be some, and there might be more dumpster babies, but with the "make it legal and it'll be easy to regulate" logic, we should also make prostitution, cocaine, and meth production legal.

I'm actually for making all three of those things legal, for a variety of reasons, but that's a different topic...

The real bottom line is, either there can be illegal abortion with lots of complications and everyone getting hurt, or there can be legal, safe abortion that may offend a few people.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:08 am 
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That post made me sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:09 am 
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Marshmallow Roast wrote:
I'm actually for making all three of those things legal, for a variety of reasons, but that's a different topic...

The real bottom line is, either there can be illegal abortion with lots of complications and everyone getting hurt, or there can be legal, safe abortion that may offend a few people.


!!!

Well I never!



:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:23 am 
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There is nothing wrong with abortion! However, I DO have a problem with shoving all of those perfectly good Dead Fetus' into the crematory instead of putting them to good use as Stem Cell research.

In 2000, there were 1,360,160[1] fetus' aborted that COULD have gone towards stem cell research and had actually done something worthwhile, (even in before-birthness), but all went into the fryer. Imagine; Over a million dead babies burning instead of being used to solve the genetic and viral diseases that plague humanity today.

But no, no, of course its Moral to waste perfectly good dead fetus' in a way that doesn't benefit society than using them in a way that does. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
I'm actually for making all three of those things legal, for a variety of reasons, but that's a different topic...



:-|

Also I agree with that Cola said. Sorta.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
I DO have a problem with shoving all of those perfectly good Dead Fetus' into the crematory instead of putting them to good use as Stem Cell research.

In 2000, there were 1,360,160[1] fetus' aborted that COULD have gone towards stem cell research and had actually done something worthwhile, (even in before-birthness), but all went into the fryer. Imagine; Over a million dead babies burning instead of being used to solve the genetic and viral diseases that plague humanity today.

But no, no, of course its Moral to waste perfectly good dead fetus' in a way that doesn't benefit society than using them in a way that does. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

I really don't like abortion, but I cannot disagree with you here.
I'm not comfortable with creating fetuses for stem cell research, but if a fetus is going to be destroyed, like one from an abortion (can stem cells be harvested from them?) or ones created for in vitro fertilization, why not put it to some good?
Abortion is a waste of life, but ignoring any potential benefit from destroying the life is a bigger waste.
This isn't about stem cells or abortion, though, so toastpaint....
How do you people feel about genetically engineered food?
We've been going big on humans here, but how about food?

Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with it. We've been genetically engineering food for years (the hybrid seed corns that produce most of our corn supply are a prime example).

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:20 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
I DO have a problem with shoving all of those perfectly good Dead Fetus' into the crematory instead of putting them to good use as Stem Cell research.

In 2000, there were 1,360,160[1] fetus' aborted that COULD have gone towards stem cell research and had actually done something worthwhile, (even in before-birthness), but all went into the fryer. Imagine; Over a million dead babies burning instead of being used to solve the genetic and viral diseases that plague humanity today.

But no, no, of course its Moral to waste perfectly good dead fetus' in a way that doesn't benefit society than using them in a way that does. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

I really don't like abortion, but I cannot disagree with you here.
I'm not comfortable with creating fetuses for stem cell research, but if a fetus is going to be destroyed, like one from an abortion (can stem cells be harvested from them?) or ones created for in vitro fertilization, why not put it to some good?
Abortion is a waste of life, but ignoring any potential benefit from destroying the life is a bigger waste.
This isn't about stem cells or abortion, though, so toastpaint....
How do you people feel about genetically engineered food?
We've been going big on humans here, but how about food?

Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with it. We've been genetically engineering food for years (the hybrid seed corns that produce most of our corn supply are a prime example).

NO PLANTS HAVE FEELINGS TOO!

...kidding...

Nah I don't have a problem with genetically engineering food. Unless my corn starts being born with like six toes. Then it gets weird...

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:49 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
I really don't like abortion, but I cannot disagree with you here.
I'm not comfortable with creating fetuses for stem cell research, but if a fetus is going to be destroyed, like one from an abortion (can stem cells be harvested from them?) or ones created for in vitro fertilization, why not put it to some good?
Abortion is a waste of life, but ignoring any potential benefit from destroying the life is a bigger waste.


Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Though, ultimately, I think it's all a slippery slope... But ultimately there's really no way to stop it. Humanity will forever crave survival, and will figure out ways around any rules and regulations that may stop them for the 'greater-good' of surviving as long as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:10 am 
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Parlod wrote:
Alcoholism is a disease....
Yes, but it's the only disease you can get yelled at for having.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:11 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Stem Cell research... viral diseases.

Nothing to do with each other. But yes, stem cell research can cure genetic diseases.

I would be 100% in support of your idea, but I don't think it's possible. By the time a woman notices she is pregnant and aborts the baby, it's generally to late to use it's stem cells. They would have already differentiated.

Sorry to keep going off topic, but I have two words to say on the subect: bone marrow. Adult bone marrow has stem cells in it. These are different to embyonic stem cells, but recent research show they can be made to revert back to embryonic form. If we put more research into this type of stem cell research the moral dilemma could be avoided completely.

Self-toastpaint. Genectically engineered food is okay in my books.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:15 am 
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Bah, you don't even need to use actual human cells for Odin's sake.

Just pop a nucleus into rabbit embryos like the Chinese claim to have done. It's a nice way around all those arbitrary stupid morals that people have.


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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:13 am 
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Biscuithead wrote:
Sorry to keep going off topic, but I have two words to say on the subect: bone marrow. Adult bone marrow has stem cells in it. These are different to embyonic stem cells, but recent research show they can be made to revert back to embryonic form. If we put more research into this type of stem cell research the moral dilemma could be avoided completely.

Marrow is high up there on the donor list, so any marrow that can be sucked out of a dead donors bones is gonna go to the next guy who needs it. Seriously though, when was the last time anybody needed dead babies?Funfact: I like to say Dead Babies.

EDIT: Also, if you modify the genes, the viral processes will change.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:07 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
There is nothing wrong with abortion! However, I DO have a problem with shoving all of those perfectly good Dead Fetus' into the crematory instead of putting them to good use as Stem Cell research.

In 2000, there were 1,360,160[1] fetus' aborted that COULD have gone towards stem cell research and had actually done something worthwhile, (even in before-birthness), but all went into the fryer. Imagine; Over a million dead babies burning instead of being used to solve the genetic and viral diseases that plague humanity today.

But no, no, of course its Moral to waste perfectly good dead fetus' in a way that doesn't benefit society than using them in a way that does. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

I agree pretty much in full.
Also, from what I see, he's not saying that abortion is right, but that if a fetus is aborted, that it should be put to use through stem cell research.
I don't think the government should be allowed to step in and say "Abort this child, science needs him."
No, that's clearly a wrong.
But if you need to abort a child, don't let it be in vain. Give it to a cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
There is nothing wrong with abortion!


Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
...a million dead babies...

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:09 pm 
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You can't take that out of context, though.
There's nothing wrong with abortion, millions of babies may die, but it's keeping them from a life of misery, and the babies that were killed are being burned instead of put to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:22 pm 
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TheFacelessEvil wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't. It's just my personal belief that messing with that sort of stuff is kinda like 'cheating'. Despite 'normal society's' standards, I truly don't believe there's anything wrong with kids with Down's Syndrome. It's just a different state of being that we're slowly becoming more adapted to. Anyway, if I had enough money to get genetic engineering, I think it'd be better spent learning about my disabled child. That's just me, though.

However, if it was a painful disease, like some sort of flesh eating thing that would make them miserable for whatever short-span of life they have... then we could talk.

Edit: Also, if my child was clearly miserable in his state of being then I'd go out of my way to do anything for them, include bend my own morals.


Where have you been all my life?

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Word Up wrote:
but it's keeping them from a life of misery, and the babies that were killed are being burned instead of put to use.

So go shoot the next person you see with cancer. Put him out of his misery.

Also, I didn't mean to take his post out of context.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Less abortion. More Jurassic Park.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:10 am 
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Rusty wrote:
Where have you been all my life?


I was ALWAYS in another castle.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:05 am 
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Just keeps getting better and better.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:07 am 
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Rusty wrote:
Just keeps getting better and better.


:) Image

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