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 Post subject: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:54 am 
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You know, California could probably successfully secede from the United States without facing many complications.
California is amongst the largest economies on the globe, the government have the support of other states' governments...
The only thing I'm worried about is the United States. What could possibly happen to it if California left? I'm sure it wouldn't be too painfully different, but it would be a bit different...
what do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:20 am 
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It wouldn't happen, why would they need or want it to? As part of America, California doesn't have to worry about maintaining its own military or anything like that.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:27 am 
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Yes, but California is a liberal state that is strongly displeased with the status of the United States... if a civil war resulted, California could easily commit guerrilla warfare and win.
There would be less struggles, since EVERYTHING is in California, and to allude to the American Civil War, California has the strengths of both the Union and the Confederacy.
Do you think California would be able to maintain itself as a confederacy? That's what I'm asking here.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:15 am 
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Word Up wrote:
Yes, but California is a liberal state that is strongly displeased with the status of the United States... if a civil war resulted, California could easily commit guerrilla warfare and win.
There would be less struggles, since EVERYTHING is in California, and to allude to the American Civil War, California has the strengths of both the Union and the Confederacy.
Do you think California would be able to maintain itself as a confederacy? That's what I'm asking here.


Nope, because we would invade and defeat them. Also, mild unhappiness with the state of affairs doesn't mean you secede, it means you try to influence the government of the country you're a part of with your representatives. California is a huge bastion of liberalism and left wing politics. If it were to try and secede, the US would become even more conservative, and even if it were to be successful, which it would not, it would then be surrounded by a huge, ultra-conservative, angry, and way more powerful nation, bent on revenge and repatriation.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:36 pm 
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Keep in mind, while it may SEEM like California is majorly liberal, there is also a powerful conservative movement here as well. I say 'powerful' because they're usually the ones who have the massive amounts of money/property.

This may or may not change when Mexico finally officially invades us. Hahahaha.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:59 pm 
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What would California's military be? The LAPD?

If they seceded they wouldn't survive that long. We'd invade to get our Hollywood and Golden Gate back.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:05 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
What would California's military be? The LAPD?

If they seceded they wouldn't survive that long. We'd invade to get our Hollywood and Golden Gate back.


No. It's ours. You can't have. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:07 pm 
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Well fine then, we'll turn Rhode Island into Rhodeislandywood. All residents will be forced into being extras on movies.

But seriously, what kind of military would the nation of California have? I'm sure more of the troopers there (I'm pretty sure there's some military presence, no?) would show more nationalism than sectionalism.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:09 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Well fine then, we'll turn Rhode Island into Rhodeislandywood. All residents will be forced into being extras on movies.

But seriously, what kind of military would the nation of California have? I'm sure more of the troopers there (I'm pretty sure there's some military presence, no?) would show more nationalism than sectionalism.

Rhode Island still exists? ;)

If we go by stereotypes, then our army would probably be...
"The Pink Panthers~! We'll scratch you, rowrl~!"

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Arm the Castro District? :p

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:13 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Arm the Castro District? :p


Oh heck yeah. We got some nasty thangs there. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:39 pm 
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California can commit guerrilla warfare? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. To me, the kind of people there who would get so aggravated enough to secede wouldn't be the ones capable of military combat, of just about any sort, let alone guerrilla.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Yeah, all of those starving artists that hate this country wouldn't really know how to shoot anything but their feet.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:52 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Yeah, all of those starving artists that hate this country wouldn't really know how to shoot anything but their feet.

Well, Serj Tankian is Arab, so I doubt his feet would be all that he shoots.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:00 pm 
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*rimshot*

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
California can commit guerrilla warfare? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. To me, the kind of people there who would get so aggravated enough to secede wouldn't be the ones capable of military combat, of just about any sort, let alone guerrilla.

To allude to the American Civil War again, the South were all farmers, they had the morale and capability to fight guerrilla.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:41 pm 
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A lot of California wouldn't have the morale. Why secede and get the crap bombed out of you when you can just stay nice and smoggy with the U.S.?

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Word Up wrote:
Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
California can commit guerrilla warfare? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. To me, the kind of people there who would get so aggravated enough to secede wouldn't be the ones capable of military combat, of just about any sort, let alone guerrilla.

To allude to the American Civil War again, the South were all farmers, they had the morale and capability to fight guerrilla.
Um, if I'm not mistaken a good chunk of the US army, including some of the best generals in the country, sided with the Confederacy when they seceded. Definitely not pure guerrilla warfare.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:06 am 
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Ingiald wrote:
Word Up wrote:
Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
California can commit guerrilla warfare? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. To me, the kind of people there who would get so aggravated enough to secede wouldn't be the ones capable of military combat, of just about any sort, let alone guerrilla.

To allude to the American Civil War again, the South were all farmers, they had the morale and capability to fight guerrilla.
Um, if I'm not mistaken a good chunk of the US army, including some of the best generals in the country, sided with the Confederacy when they seceded. Definitely not pure guerrilla warfare.

There was guerrilla warfare, but strong military leadership, which is why it was so successful.
Times have changed, true, but would they really bomb someplace which is a mere matter of miles from territories they still control.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:23 am 
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Yes they would, but that's not the point. The question is "Would California ever have a reason to want to secede from the US?" and the answer is no, they would not.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:27 am 
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Jitka wrote:
Also, mild unhappiness with the state of affairs doesn't mean you secede, it means you try to influence the government of the country you're a part of with your representatives.

Jitka's right. After all, this is California we're talking about, not Quebec.

Yeah, that's right, I didn't use the right accent marks. Suck it, Quebec.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:28 am 
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Times have changed, true, but would they really bomb someplace which is a mere matter of miles from territories they still control.


Not so much nuke as place bombs in various buildings, cause chaos on the scale of the LA riots, stuff like that scene in Saving Private Ryan but probably less severe.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:41 am 
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Jitka wrote:
The question is "Would California ever have a reason to want to secede from the US?" and the answer is no, they would not.

If you are displeased with the state of the Union, you are guaranteed the right to voice on it.
Should they become displeased, that would be considered enough of a reason.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:47 am 
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Would enough people want to secede? I see massive population changes leaving only like 100 crazies as the citizens of the "nation".

A similar question, would New York survive on its own as an independent nation? If 4th grade history is my forte then I think they wanted to be independent at the start. Would there be enough reason, however?

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:09 am 
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New York City, or the whole state? I could MAYBE see the whole state surviving, but not just the city.

but again, the benefits of staying a part of America would outweigh any incentives to leave. I've also heard that NYC and Long Island should secede from New York to make their own state, which might be ok.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:50 am 
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Word Up wrote:
There was guerrilla warfare, but strong military leadership, which is why it was so successful.

Successful? They lost. It was all downhill after Gettysburg - a battle which, for the record, the South occupied all the open ground while the North was up in the town and surrounding forest. American soil is well made for guerrilla warfare, but just because you can doesn't mean you will (British redcoats). Just saying.
All that aside, I just don't think they have it in them. They're too comfortable to fight, not really.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:48 pm 
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New York City, or the whole state? I could MAYBE see the whole state surviving, but not just the city.


The state.

New York City and Long Island secede? What would they call NYC? I mean, it would improve the rest of NY's property taxes and other crap we pay for in the city, but then we wouldn't be as awesome.

Besides I like having an even number of states. 51 just looks lame.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:23 pm 
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The Noid wrote:
Besides I like having an even number of states. 51 just looks lame.

51 is so not lame. It's divisible by 17. That automatically makes it beyond awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:07 pm 
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Yeah but our flag would suck. It looks all nice and even but add another star to it and everything goes wrong. The pedantic will riot.

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 Post subject: Re: California
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:19 pm 
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duude

like we can

secede and stuff

righteous, braa

totally bomb, bro

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