Homestar Runner Wiki Forum
http://forum.hrwiki.org/

The Christian-Right Take-Over
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1569
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Dr. Zaius [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  The Christian-Right Take-Over

Below are a bunch of articles, the first two are outlines of Christian Zionists and their plans to trigger Rapture. the second group is how the far Christian-Right is taking over the government, and the last two articles are on how the Christian-Right is taking over every day society...

http://www.nypress.com/17/41/news&columns/feature.cfm
http://www.altpressonline.com/modules.p ... le&sid=119

http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/ne ... 127751.htm

http://www.bioethics.net/articles.php?v ... ticleId=20
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004 ... index.html

I'd have more, but Yahoo news and CNN.com's articles expire...

Author:  TheTinyGiant [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 

Not all people stated as Christians really follow as they should. I think many Muslims feel a bit misrepresented with the extremists running amuck like that. They're the 1% or so that get all the attention, all of it bad, putting a shadow over Islam, while the other 99% are relatively peaceful and devoted. Same with the so-called "Christian-Zionists" who call themselves that and misrepresent the other Christians. Some people believe those things, yes. But you can't use some as an example of all. Get bit by one dog and assume that 100% of these fun furry cuddly animals are ferocious beasts.
Quote:
Note that Evans, like all Evangelicals, wouldn't mind it if terrorists got us—it's just that he prefers that God get us first. All of us.

I consider myself Evangelical but certainly don't believe that. These articles at a glance seemed extremely biased.[/quote]

Author:  Dr. Zaius [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:45 am ]
Post subject: 

But this thread is on Christian extremists. Extremists who are waging a social war for dominance. And unfortunately, even though not all Christians take their beliefs to a degree as these psychos do, they'll more likely side with them over say, Atheists, or anyone else who's not interested in the Christian way. That's how George Bush got reelected, those who voted on "morals" because Bush is pushing a Christian agenda...

Author:  Didymus [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:58 am ]
Post subject: 

I didn't vote for him. Neither do I support the Zionist movement, either. I consider Zionism bad theology turned bad politics.

Author:  StrongRad [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:16 am ]
Post subject: 

The important thing to remember about all of these "pro-christian" people getting into power is that we live in a representative democracy, the people vote for "leaders", and, apparently, the people want religious people in power.

I'm Christian, or I consider myself Christian, but I am still all for seperation of church and state. There are too many things that can go wrong for the church if they merge, and not enough that can go right.

Author:  StrongCanada [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

I agree with Everettimmy; extremists of any form or fashion are not good. But since the thread is about Christian extremists, I'll try to stay on topic.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't believe a bunch of extremists are going to convince God to begin the apocalypse, especially with such negative actions as extrediting (sp?) an entire race. "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God,", people!

But, to play devil's advocate, maybe the reason these people are coming to power is that we are seeing a surgence of a lack of morals in our society (now, I don't think it's moral to hate other races and kidnap people and send them to their "homeland", but I'm just stating an idea for discussion). Maybe the public is responding to the media frenzy of a seemingly increasing population of immoral people. I don't really think so, but it's a thought...

Type amongst yourselves....

Author:  Dr. Zaius [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

They don't need god to trigger the apocalypse, the US alone has enough nukes to render our planet uninhabitable. These people are just like all those wacko cults you hear about, who drink the "special punch". Only these nut cases are working on a much, much, MUCH larger scale...

Author:  StrongCanada [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

Ok, I guess it was my ignorance that led me to define apocalypse as being begun by God, but I see what you mean about nuclear war. Are you certain about that 65 million number that the article uses? I mean, that's a pretty hefty number, and I didn't think that Christian Extremist groups such as the one you speak of were that high in number. Sources, anyone?

Author:  El_Chupacabra [ Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

This is ridiculous. One more conspiracy theory...

I'm sorry this is so long, but please read all of it. It's important.

First of all, you're judging the whole of the "Christian right" by a few extremists. That's dumb, just like those dumb ultra-conservative hicks I live around who think all Muslims are terrorists. The only difference is that it's not as obvious that it's dumb because Christians are a majority, as opposed to the minority of Muslims. And we all know majorities are evil. :rolleyes: QUIT STEREOTYPING!!!

Second, so what if Christians are gaining influence? They just want to make the world a better place. There's no ambition or greed on the Christian's part AS A WHOLE. Most Christians denominations aren't organized enough to be doing this a some sort of "conquest" of the government. Catholics may have the potential, but it's largely the evangelicals that are changing America in the ways that you fear.

Third, TRYING TO CHANGE AMERICA IS NOT THE SAME AS TAKING OVER SOCIETY. Obviously, you don't think America's perfect. If you try to change it so it better suits you and your beliefs, is that wrong? Is that a hostile take-over? I think not! Someone disagreeing with you is NOT the same thing as censorship or suppression. How is it different than from what the Atheist Left is doing? Really, how?

Fourth, you and many others grossly interpret "seperation of church and state". That doesn't mean that Christians must restrict all of their religious practices to private areas (heh heh, I'd like to make a pun but won't). I know that's not what most people want, but some people do. More importantly, it also does not mean they should keep our faith put of teir votes. I say it's a free country, let the Christians vote however they wish! Who are you to tell them how to vote? Who are you to say that the most important thing in some of their lives should simply be put aside when it comes to the "real world"? This involves a misrepresentation of Christianity: it's like saying it's only a make-believe game, not something that anyone takes seriously or that has any merit. Secularism is all great and fine, but you can't force it on anyone!

This leads me to what I have to say about all this "forcing of morals" bulljazz. WHen Christians vote on moral issues, we're no forcing anyone to "be Christian", believe in God, or even be good people. We're only fighting off the forcing of secularism on us!

Take Gay marriage, for instance: we're not forcing gays to be straight. We're only trying to live in a world better suited to what we believe is our God.

And while we're at it, the right to privacy thing doesn't hold up. First of all, if you're going to say we can't VOTE how we want to, all right to privacy goes straight out the window. After that, it still doesn't work because homosexuality is NOT private. People parade it around. And look at pop culture: It's not only accepted, but glorified and encouraged. We're going to fight that, and if it becomes private, I personally would stop fighting it. (And the "it's natural" argument doesn't hold up either; more on that if you're interested in hearing it)

Another issue I assume you're thinking about is abortion. That's also a misinterpretation. When I cast a vote against abortion in any form, a presidential or congressional vote, I'm not forcing those women to be Christian. (I am forcing them to be responsible for their actions, but that has nothing to do with religion) I'm saving the lives of those children! That's what I'm trying to do. It has nothing to do with a takeover, it's just to save the children!

So all this hatred and hysteria is without merit or basis. It all stems from resentment over being "judged" and losing the presidential election and many liberal seats in Congress. Christians are NOT conquering the country, and if you want to make a difference, use Votes, not HATE!

Author:  thefreakyblueman [ Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:58 am ]
Post subject: 

El_Chupacabra wrote:
First of all, you're judging the whole of the "Christian right" by a few extremists. That's dumb, just like those dumb ultra-conservative hicks I live around who think all Muslims are terrorists.

Though you're correct about the fact that a huge amount of Americans think that all Muslims are terrorists, you're dead wrong about the "Christian Right". He wasn't talking about Christian Republicans, but the extremists themselves. Read a bit more carefully, next time.

El_Chupacabra wrote:
Second, so what if Christians are gaining influence? They just want to make the world a better place. There's no ambition or greed on the Christian's part AS A WHOLE. Most Christians denominations aren't organized enough to be doing this a some sort of "conquest" of the government. Catholics may have the potential, but it's largely the evangelicals that are changing America in the ways that you fear.

I find this amazingly ironic that you just spoke about how stereotyping is bad. Not every Christian wants the best of humanity, just like not every American wants the best for humanity. You can't judge someone by their religion, or their job (referring to you thinking that evangelicals are changing America only).

El_Chupacabra wrote:
Third, TRYING TO CHANGE AMERICA IS NOT THE SAME AS TAKING OVER SOCIETY. Obviously, you don't think America's perfect. If you try to change it so it better suits you and your beliefs, is that wrong? Is that a hostile take-over? I think not! Someone disagreeing with you is NOT the same thing as censorship or suppression. How is it different than from what the Atheist Left is doing? Really, how?

Ugh. Again, stereotyping and judging. First, you saying that these extremists aren't trying to overthrow society is just ignorant. For, if you actually read some of the articles, you would realize that the first two are about the Christian Zionists trying to trigger Rapture. Though it's apparent that you're a very zealous Christian and a very conservative person, you don't seem to understand what the Rapture is. If the end of the world isn't changing society, I don't know what is.

El_Chubacabra wrote:
Fourth, you and many others grossly interpret "seperation of church and state". That doesn't mean that Christians must restrict all of their religious practices to private areas (heh heh, I'd like to make a pun but won't). I know that's not what most people want, but some people do. More importantly, it also does not mean they should keep our faith put of teir votes. I say it's a free country, let the Christians vote however they wish! Who are you to tell them how to vote? Who are you to say that the most important thing in some of their lives should simply be put aside when it comes to the "real world"? This involves a misrepresentation of Christianity: it's like saying it's only a make-believe game, not something that anyone takes seriously or that has any merit. Secularism is all great and fine, but you can't force it on anyone!

Yeesh, and you say that we're misinterpreting "Separation of Church and State"? Try looking it up. It has absolutely nothing to do with voting, but the laws that are being made. For example: George Bush authorizing a law based solely on religious purposes would be a violation of Separation of Church and State. Now, say that a law such as the ban of homosexual marriage was made because it says in the New Testament that "man ought not lay with another man", wouldn't that too be a violation? In case you missed what I just put, your thinking that "Separation of Church and State" has anything to do with voting is false, as it is just about keeping religious influence from the government. Because this is a diverse nation, and it is meant to be a diverse nation, this is an excellent law.

El_Chubacabra wrote:
Take Gay marriage, for instance: we're not forcing gays to be straight. We're only trying to live in a world better suited to what we believe is our God.

Read above: American laws should not be meant for God to like, but for the welfare of the country.

El_Chubacabra wrote:
And while we're at it, the right to privacy thing doesn't hold up. First of all, if you're going to say we can't VOTE how we want to, all right to privacy goes straight out the window. After that, it still doesn't work because homosexuality is NOT private. People parade it around. And look at pop culture: It's not only accepted, but glorified and encouraged. We're going to fight that, and if it becomes private, I personally would stop fighting it. (And the "it's natural" argument doesn't hold up either; more on that if you're interested in hearing it)

The point behind the "violation of privacy" issue is that, in order for the law to be enforced, police are going to have to monitor people to make sure that at any moment, they aren't going to to get married with their gender. As you can see, this has nothing to do with what media is doing with homosexuality. You want to see things paraded around? Look at heterosexual sex. It's everywhere: On most television shows, there is at least a reference to it, in most movies, there is almost always a sex scene, and on the internet--pornography! Wow, if I were to say anything, I'd say that it's heterosexual sex that needs to be cut down in public media. As for your comment about homosexuality not being natural, I only point to the Wikipedia article on it, and in particular, the section about Homosexuality in nature. Now, if animals experience homosexuality, and they are not tainted by today's standards, thoughts, opinions in the media, and all of our artificial ideas on the subject, how could it not be natural? Like you said, more on this please.

El_Chubacabra wrote:
Another issue I assume you're thinking about is abortion. That's also a misinterpretation. When I cast a vote against abortion in any form, a presidential or congressional vote, I'm not forcing those women to be Christian. (I am forcing them to be responsible for their actions, but that has nothing to do with religion) I'm saving the lives of those children! That's what I'm trying to do. It has nothing to do with a takeover, it's just to save the children!

Refer to the Abortion thread to further discuss this. My point is clearly stated here, and the entire thread debates your theory.

Author:  Dr. Zaius [ Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 

Thank you, strange azure guy, you summed that up quite well for me :p

I think he just read my opening lines, and maybe browsed the titles of the articles.

To elaborate, I don't think Father Johnson at your local church is in on this, or every Christian gun club are training for a take over, it's the people with high positions of power. The Christian extremists, which are far more numerous than you assume...

Author:  El_Chupacabra [ Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

I wasn't stereotyping, I was generalizing. MOST Christians do want the best for humanity. Stop dodging the issue with your "stereotyping" crap!

And once again, I don't give a crap if a few Bad word are trying to trigger Rapture. THat doesn't mean the whole Christian right is trying to take over society. You're blowing things out of proportion! Typical conspiracy theorist: can't let a good fact get in the way. GOD, you guys are drama queens. The world will never take you seriously until you get some FACTS, not just overly exaggerated interpretations and hatred of those who hold different opinions.

Author:  thefreakyblueman [ Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

El_Chupacabra wrote:
I wasn't stereotyping, I was generalizing. MOST Christians do want the best for humanity. Stop dodging the issue with your "stereotyping" -CENSOR'd!!-!

And once again, I don't give a crap if a few Bad word are trying to trigger Rapture. THat doesn't mean the whole Christian right is trying to take over society. You're blowing things out of proportion! Typical conspiracy theorist: can't let a good fact get in the way. GOD, you guys are drama queens. The world will never take you seriously until you get some FACTS, not just overly exaggerated interpretations and hatred of those who hold different opinions.

I have three words for you. ACTUALLY READ IT. I never spoke of any opinions, nor did I EVER say that the entire Christian religion wants to trigger rapture. El_Chubacabra, it's becoming apparent that you're not reading anything, and just writing about things that you know. I suggest that you take a second, and read my post. Hey, I'll even save you the time, and quote my self:
thefreakyblueman wrote:
Though you're correct about the fact that a huge amount of Americans think that all Muslims are terrorists, you're dead wrong about the "Christian Right". He wasn't talking about Christian Republicans, but the extremists themselves. Read a bit more carefully, next time.

Hmm.. "not talking about Christian Republicans, but the extremists themselves".. sounds a whole lot like I was just talking about the extremists, and not stereotyping, just as you are. If I were you, I'd cut down on making stuff up, and actually refer to actual things that I said, and please, don't cuss. Saying "-CENSOR'D!!-!" just makes you look like an idiot.

Author:  El_Chupacabra [ Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

[quote=me]"I don't give a crap if a few Bad word are trying to trigger Rapture. THat doesn't mean the whole Christian right is trying to take over society."[/quote]

Quote:
have three words for you. ACTUALLY READ IT. I never spoke of any opinions, nor did I EVER say that the entire Christian religion wants to trigger rapture.


I never said you did! Maybe YOU are the one misreading, because I said "few", not all. I've read ayour posts throughout. (Note: take over socieety does not mean trigger Rapture, so don't even say that I did indeed refer to all Christians triggering it)

As for the rest of what you said... it's all circumlocution. YOu managed to ignore all the actual points I brought up, valid or otherwise, and got bogged down in semantics. I guess that's a concession. Good for me.

Author:  AgentSeethroo [ Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

El_Chupacabra wrote:
I wasn't stereotyping, I was generalizing. MOST Christians do want the best for humanity. Stop dodging the issue with your "stereotyping" -CENSOR'd!!-!


Warning Number 1.

Watch your language, cause I'm definitely gonna be watchin' it from now on.

Author:  thefreakyblueman [ Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

El_Chupacabra wrote:
I don't give a crap if a few Bad word are trying to trigger Rapture. THat doesn't mean the whole Christian right is trying to take over society.

Quote:
have three words for you. ACTUALLY READ IT. I never spoke of any opinions, nor did I EVER say that the entire Christian religion wants to trigger rapture.


I never said you did! Maybe YOU are the one misreading, because I said "few", not all. I've read ayour posts throughout. (Note: take over socieety does not mean trigger Rapture, so don't even say that I did indeed refer to all Christians triggering it)


May I just point out your own words? Thanks.

El_Chubacabra wrote:
The world will never take you seriously until you get some FACTS, not just overly exaggerated interpretations and hatred of those who hold different opinions.


El_Chubacabra wrote:
As for the rest of what you said... it's all circumlocution. YOu managed to ignore all the actual points I brought up, valid or otherwise, and got bogged down in semantics. I guess that's a concession. Good for me.

I don't understand why you're saying that I am the one who's staying in the semantics of words--to quote you:
El_Chubacabra wrote:
As for the first Amendment, fine. My rfaith is no longer a "religion", persay. It's a "belief system". There, now the First Amendment doesn't apply on ANYONE's definiton, no matter how stupid.

I may point out that this quote came from your thread, "How is it any different?".

El_Chubacabra wrote:
YOu managed to ignore all the actual points I brought up, valid or otherwise,

If you look at my post, I quoted absolutely everything that you stated, and made a rebuttal. Chubacabra, I'm getting tired of this. If you're not actually going to read other people's posts and make intelligent responses to them, I'm just going to stop posting here.

Author:  Buz [ Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Discovery

Dr. Zaius wrote:
...the US alone has enough nukes to render our planet uninhabitable...

This month's issue of Discovery magazine seems to think this would be a great idea. Talk about pushing a political agenda, I thought I was reading a magazine on social policy this month!

Dr. Zaius wrote:
...every Christian gun club ...

There are Christian gun clubs? This I gotta see!

At any rate, in discussions of eschatology I try to think of things from God's point of view, using what I know of his character as revealed: what would he think of people trying to force his hand? Manipulate him? If you've read Revelation, and you've understood the basic imperitive points, radical and political action are diametrically opposed to what the Christians are supposed to be doing during the tribulation and the years leading up to it. The IVP or Navigators' commentary on Revelation will help you if it's too hard.

Author:  Dr. Zaius [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

Update: http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/bush/index.htm

It's a lengthy read, but take the time to look it over. It has startling evidence that Bush is handing over the highest posistions of out government to extrimists.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/