But the idea of Christianity is the organization. The great majority of Christian organizations and people in power feel this way, and in my opinion, make the church's beluiefs something I can not associate myself with anymore.

The Christian people that do follow the teachings of Jesus seem to be the exception these days. The war on terror, same sex fear, et. al. do not constitute loving your neighbor or turning the other cheek. Jesus is the best teacher of all time, but the dogma that follows in his religion is destructive. I don't see how you can separate the organization from the religion. Or maybe I have watched too much Pat Robertson lately.

as always, not meaning to offend (I guess I need to put that there.

Terrorism is currently the greatest threat to our well-being.

I'm talking about the security of the nation, not the health of its inhabitants.

Yikes!

I take full responsibility for the switch of subject. Perhaps we have bit off more than we could chew.

I am not saying that i want Jesus for Prez of the USA, but I would have a hard time seeing him bomb and kill other countries. The Jews were in the grips of the Roman Empire, perhaps the biggest terrorist organization ever, and Jesus NEVER called for the Jews to 'protect themselves.' God called the Jews to war (not what I personally believe, but anyway), but that is a distinction of the Old Testament. Jesus would try to understand the terrorists, wouldn't he?

War and Religion make good bedfellows, mayhaps?

/awaits a good skull thrashing

No, Jesus would understand the terrorists perfectly. They're fundamentalist radicals who will die for what they believe and will not be swayed.

And Jesus did not call for the Jews to protect themselves because Jesus was a teacher, not the incitor of a rebellion like many people believed the Messiah would be. The Bible teaches to submit to your captors. It's an entirely different thing than terrorists attacking your country.

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter agoinst her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

I see the average American not giving a darn about anyone in the Middle East except to bomb them or to make money off of them. Very far from Jesus' ideals.

In Iraq, we are committed to working with our international partners to keep Saddam Hussein boxed in, and we will work to see him out of power. Bill Clinton and Al Gore have stood up to Saddam Hussein time and time again. As President, Al Gore will not hesitate to use America's military might against Iraq when and where it is necessary.

As President, Al Gore will tolerate no attack against American interests at home or abroad: terrorists must know that if they attack America, we will never forget. We will scour the world to hunt them down and bring them to justice.

I do believe Jesus loved everyone and taught his followers to do the same. However, I also do not believe he was/is a coward. He submitted to his captors because it was necessary for him to die to accomplish his atoning sacrifice. However, in the end he will come in his wrath to destroy the earth and re-create it.

Jesus (in Mt. 10:34-38) wrote:
Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter agoinst her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

And again...

Jesus (in Lk. 12:49-52) wrote:
I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

If you created a batch of hammers, and none of them worked right, you would throw them out without a second look. If some were salvagable, you might melt them down to make new hammers.

I don't believe God has called us to be cowards. He calls us to hate sin (but not sinners) and stand up against injustice.

I don't think a single Iraqi child deserved to die at our clumsy, vengeful fingers.

This next statement will probably offend people, but I'll say it anyway. Islam is a bloody religion.

Do not confuse the responsibility of Christians with the responsibility of governments.

Okay, hockeyjackman, lemme get this straight.

If you saw a girl getting raped in a dark alley at night, would you not interfere to defend the girl? Because you don't know her? Because it wouldn't be your place to get in the middle of things?

Or would you try to break it up peacefully? Perhaps try to explain to the man why rape is wrong, and ask him to please stop? Perhaps you would quietly wait until the man is done, then help the girl put her clothes on and get back on her feet?

Of course not. You would probably call the cops, and if you were drastic enough you might try to defend the lady yourself.

The way I see it, the U.S. (and many other nations) looked and noticed that the Iraqi people were getting raped by a fascist dictator, realized we had the manpower to do something about it, and intervened the most effective way we knew how.

I do believe it is a valid fear that this "War on Terror" will become just an excuse to impose American interests in foreign lands.

This is why I fear for the future of my country. Throughout the world, The War on Terror is seen as a religious, racial divide, whereas it should be us finding the specific perpetrators of the injustices we were served. We have no right to be in a country that has not been shown to have hurt us.

As for the idea of democracy in Iraq: if the majority of the people there want a theocracy run by a fundamental (by our standards) religious leader, will the Americans let them have it? Probably not, right? Does this not conflict with giving over full sovereignty?

I am so confused as to what we should do now in that country: I hope that this is the last time we get ourselves in this situation. There is no "quick fix" to the problems of the world, yet politicians seem to think that war will cure all of our ills.

If we ever want to be able to call a man like--you know that famous German dictator that you're not supposed to name in forums--

Supposedly, there is some rule that if you meantion Hitler or Nazis, then the thread is considered closed, and whoever makes the reference automatically loses the debate. I don't know who made up that stupid rule.