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Question about Lent: I'm told that Catholics can't eat meat on Fridays during Lent. Why do they eat fish? Is fish not meat?!?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

The Catholic Church defines meat as any animal that flies in the air or walks on the Earth and since fish do neither of those, it is not considered to be meat.

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Geez, where do Catholics get all this crap that isn't in the Bible? (No offense to you guys.)

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You could have worded it differently if you didn't mean to offend.

Something like "Where do Catholics get these things that aren't in the bible?" would have been non-offensive.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I'm kicking myself in the butt over that one. Well, not literally, I'm not nimble enough for that.

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The Catholic Church has two kinds of rules: dogma and discipline. Dogma are those rules that come out of specific biblical beliefs and are not subject to change ever. Disciplines are rules that the Church decides, through its dogmatic position as the authority on Christianity on Earth (by interpretations of certain verses that non-Catholics obviously do not share), are necessary for people to follow right now due to the way things are right now in the world. So, for instance, the Church decided some time in the distant past that it would be better if everyone gave up meat for Lent. Over time, the Church decided that modern living didn't need that so much and decreased that bit by bit to the point where it's just non-fish meat on Fridays (it used to be also that Catholics couldn't eat non-fish meat on any Friday in the year, I believe). Another example of a discipline is not allowing priests to marry. It's not that the Bible says clergy shoudn't marry, but the Church has just decided it would be best right now if they didn't. The Pope or a council could come around tomorrow and say "OK, they can marry now" and bam. There are already a very few exceptions.

So, this kind of thing can be pretty puzzling to non-Catholics. But the Catholic position is that spirituality has both an individual and a collective dimension and the importance is closer to the collective side than protestants would place it.

(formerly a VERY serious Catholic)

EDIT: also, the definition of "meat" has been very flexible across time and cultures. In a lot of places if you ask for something without meat, they'll give you something that has some kind of meat in it that they claim isn't meat. Like in Eastern Europe, there's a lot of pork products in "vegetarian" menus.

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Thank you very much for the info.

My problem with Catholicism is that it's very ritualistic, which doesn't lead to a true relationship with the Holy Spirit.

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I wouldn't be so quick to say that if I were you. While I will concede that sometimes people fall into routines and become complacent in their rituals, it's not always true that rituals are pointless. My own personal belief is that the Holy Spirit can use whatever means he chooses, but works primarily through Word and Sacrament.

When I was a Baptist, I was known to say similar things. But then, I discovered in the Lutheran liturgy a Word-centered worship that was genuine and true. I also found that rituals can and often do carry a great deal of meaning, if only we take the time to understand them. When we do, rather than hindering, you might find they actually enhance.

For example:

1. Candles - signify that Christ is the Light of the World.

2. Robes and Albs - signify that, while we are sinners, Christ clothes us in his righteousness.

3. Lectern - signifies that God's Word is proclaimed to our benefit.

I won't refer to the Sacraments, since I personally believe the Sacraments to be more than mere rituals, but actual sacred events.

After I converted to Lutheran, some of my friends in college would often say that liturgical worship wasn't spiritual. My challenge to them always was, "Why don't you say that after you've visited my church?" Of course, sadly, none of them would.

My point: don't be so quick to dismiss what you do not understand. Part of the reason I'm now Lutheran is because I found meaning in liturgical worship, and carefully considered becoming Roman Catholic. But with my strong biblical background, I found I needed more of an evangelical faith. Luther offered me the best of both worlds: traditional liturgy and Sacraments, along with a strong biblical orientation.

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What Didy said, but also I'd like to say that you're right in that if ritual is all we do, we probably won't be having a true relationship with the Holy Spirit. That pushes the emphasis too far toward the collective spiritual expression, when there needs to be a balance based on the individual conversion. Completely dismissing ritual can make your faith too individualistic, which is just as dangerous as just going through ritual motions. Christians are supposed to be in an individual relationship with God, but also involved in the collective relationship between God and the church as a whole. It's just the way the human mind and soul works that the collective aspect is usually best expressed through ritual.

But about Lent: Giving up stuff usually didn't work for me. I tried giving up all kinds of stuff, but I always ended up forgetting it was Lent

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Well, think of it like this: yes, we are individual members of the body, but we we belong to the body, and only fulfill our role as members in so far as we participate in the life of the body. For example, a hand cannot function as a hand unless it acknowledges its connection to the arm, and through the arm its connection to the rest of the body. That's where things like ritual and liturgy function: they bring the individuals together and bind them into one body. And for us Lutherans, this is God's doing: through Word and Sacrament, he gathers us together in his name to receive his benefits and sanctifies us (sets us apart) to be members of his body.

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I love you guys.

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^ Yay meaningful post!

I'm not Catholic, but I have a few friends who are. It seems to me that they observe Lent as more of a formality than any actual belief in it... I dunno, I don't think I would partake in self-deprivation unless I thought I had a good reason for doing it.

I'm giving up chinese food. I'll never make it...

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I gave that up too. But that was mostly because of the food poisioning. But's for a different time...

Paint.

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I'm catholic and...


seriously, where DO we get this stuff?

Whatever, I still eat fish on Fridays.

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It's called the Apocrypha.

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Haha! Sorry for sounding so belligerent, yalz. I really respect Catholicism. When I say stuff like that I don't know my head from my butt.

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