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Is Magic necessarily Evil
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2077		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Sspade [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:53 am ]
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In the real world, the main diffrence from praying to God and using withcraft or praying to Baal or another god is that the other ones aren't real.

In a D&D, FullMetal Alchemist, insert-your-favorite-fantasy-thing-here-world, where magic is a science or some other part of the natural order, I'd imagine that it be like sience; a nuetral force that can be used for good and evil.

(This is coming from a Christian worldview. If you don't agree with it, come up with your own theory :p )
Author:  Evin290 [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:45 pm ]
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Sspade wrote:
the main diffrence from praying to God and using withcraft or praying to Baal or another god is that the other ones aren't real.

So your saying that Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism (which is either a religion or a philosophy), Jainism, Sikhism, Paganism and Atheism are all 100% incorrect and your religion is the only one that is true? That's just annoying. You can have faith in your own beliefs, but you can't deny the valadity of others' beliefs. What if you die, and go to Jahannam because Islam turned out to be correct and you weren't living by the Islamic moral standards? There's no way to know, so flaunting about trying to convince everyone that only your religion is the right one is taboo around here, so steer clear of it.

(Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way ;) )
Author:  AgentSeethroo [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:01 pm ]
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evin290 wrote:
Sspade wrote:
the main diffrence from praying to God and using withcraft or praying to Baal or another god is that the other ones aren't real.

So your saying that Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism (which is either a religion or a philosophy), Jainism, Sikhism, Paganism and Atheism are all 100% incorrect and your religion is the only one that is true? That's just annoying. You can have faith in your own beliefs, but you can't deny the valadity of others' beliefs. What if you die, and go to Jahannam because Islam turned out to be correct and you weren't living by the Islamic moral standards? There's no way to know, so flaunting about trying to convince everyone that only your religion is the right one is taboo around here, so steer clear of it.

(Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way ;) )


How do you know that he's right and you're wrong? You don't.

He's not belittling anyone, he's just saying what he believes. He even said that he was looking at things through a Christian point of view.

But here's a different Christian point of view.

Baal was just as real as God in the bible...but in the long run, God was the creator and Baal was the created. Look in the book of Daniel...I believe in chapter 31...the archangel Michael was delayed because he was "battling the principality of the spiritual realm of persia (this is a paraphrase)." So there you go. There are other beings that sort of have spiritual "dominance" over an area.

To me, when people worship other gods, they may in fact be worshipping a spirit claiming to be indeed a god and therefore they are worshipping something real, but false at the same time.

That doesn't change the fact, however, that in God's eyes, they're idols and false gods.
Author:  Evin290 [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:12 pm ]
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I didn't mean the part about Baal. I'm talking about "the main difference between praying to God and... praying to... another god is that the other ones aren't real." Saying that your religion is right, no ifs ands and buts is just being arrogant. You can have faith in religions without saying "no other religion is right but mine, and all you heathens that don't believe that Jesus was our savior are going to hell because God hates anyone who doesn't recognize him as God!!!111!!!" (I'm not saying that you're saying that Seethroo, nor am I saying that you're saying it Sspade. Just be more careful with your wording next time :-) )
Author:  AgentSeethroo [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:16 pm ]
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evin290 wrote:
:-)


Ya know...sometimes that smiley will make all the difference in the world when trying to get a point across.

Here's the deal, Evin.

Many people believe that their faith is the only "true" faith or that their savior is the only way to salvation or whatnot.

I am one of those people. However, I'm not gonna condemn another person for believing something different.

You believe what you believe, we believe what we believe, but no one's gonna force any belief on anyone. Not in this forum, at least.

Now that that's settled, Toast Paint.

Magic: The Gathering...good or evil?

Heh.
Author:  Evin290 [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:22 pm ]
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Oh, Magic the gathering is evil! It promotes Satanism! Just like those blasted Harry Potter books... :eek:

I actual don't believe that what I believe is true... If that makes any sense... I'm saying that if I turn out to be wrong in what I believe, it won't bother me that much. If *somehow* the existence of God was somehow disproved, it wouldn't effect me much. I believe in God, but that belief isn't the reason I do what I do. If I pass by a homeless person on the street, I don't think "God would want me to give them money", I think "that person's having a rough time, I think they need money." But of course, the existence of God can not be disproved (or even proved for that matter.) That's why belief is so confusing. Most people before Columbus' time BELIEVED the earth was flat. They thought that there beliefs were 100% correct, but they weren't. But then again, Galileo believed that the earth revolved around the sun, and he was correct. But theology is one thing that science can't touch because there's no way to prove or disprove it. Meh... I second the motion to toast paint...
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:26 am ]
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Quote:
Most people before Columbus' time BELIEVED the earth was flat.

Not true. Claudius Ptolemy proved that the earth was round sometime in the 2nd century AD (some 1200 years before Columbus was born). In fact, passages in both Dante's THE DIVINE COMEDY and Thomas Aquinas' SUMMA THEOLOGIA confirm that medieval people understood that the earth was spherical.

The difference between Columbus and other people of his day was that he calculated the earth to be much smaller than they did. They recognized that it would take far too long to make a voyage to India going west around the world. They were right. Columbus did not in fact circumnavigate the world (i.e., he never "proved the world was round"). He discovered a continent in his way.
Author:  Evin290 [ Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:29 am ]
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Didymus wrote:
Quote:
Most people before Columbus' time BELIEVED the earth was flat.

Not true. Claudius Ptolemy proved that the earth was round sometime in the 2nd century AD (some 1200 years before Columbus was born). In fact, passages in both Dante's THE DIVINE COMEDY and Thomas Aquinas' SUMMA THEOLOGIA confirm that medieval people understood that the earth was spherical.

Okay sorry. Blame my social studies teacher. I revise my statement to "Most people before Ptolemy's time BELIEVED the earth was flat." Happy? :mrgreen:
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:38 am ]
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Thank you, Evin. It is a common misconception, unfortunately propagated by educators who don't know any better.
Author:  Jerome [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:48 pm ]
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There is no "real magic", Black Knight. Magic doesn't exist.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:51 am ]
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Jerome wrote:
There is no "real magic", Black Knight. Magic doesn't exist.

What makes you so confident, Jerome? Just because it happens to be beyond the experience of most people does not mean that it doesn't exist. People used to think that gorillas were just a myth, until some scientist managed to bring one back to civilization. People used to think that sea serpents were not real, until they started appearing all over the place (they're called Oarfish now).
Author:  Jerome [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:07 am ]
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Didymus wrote:
Jerome wrote:
There is no "real magic", Black Knight. Magic doesn't exist.

What makes you so confident, Jerome? Just because it happens to be beyond the experience of most people does not mean that it doesn't exist. People used to think that gorillas were just a myth, until some scientist managed to bring one back to civilization. People used to think that sea serpents were not real, until they started appearing all over the place (they're called Oarfish now).

That isn't a fair comparison, Didymus. Both your examples were the existence of types of animals. We're talking about the existence of magic, which is impossible.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:46 am ]
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Jerome wrote:
That isn't a fair comparison, Didymus. Both your examples were the existence of types of animals. We're talking about the existence of magic, which is impossible.

Prove it.
Author:  Jerome [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:29 am ]
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Didymus wrote:
Jerome wrote:
That isn't a fair comparison, Didymus. Both your examples were the existence of types of animals. We're talking about the existence of magic, which is impossible.

Prove it.

I'd rather you proved to me that magic exists.
Author:  Didymus [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:41 am ]
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You're the one making the absolute claim. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you, not me.

And in case you're wondering, my particular approach is called "having an open mind."
Author:  Black Knight [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:48 pm ]
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The only point of this topic was to debate whether or not Magic was good or evil. You have to assume that it Exists prior to debating the issue.
A wise man once told me...
Quote:
There is too much written about Jesus, for something to not have happened

Even without belief you can say there is a preponderance of evidence saying that he did indeed exist. Whether or not he was the Son of God, that is debatable.
The same can be said about magic. Whether or not it allows us to hurl fireballs and turn people into toads, that is debatable.
Just assume it exists for the sake of argument...
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