Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Christian, but we never really go to church. I'm protestant, from the information I gathered. But I follow the Ten Commandments (Or what's possible currently) I believe in Him, but I also know there are other Gods and the idea of no god, but I mainly believe in God / no God. Some stuff can't be explained realistically, so it probably is HIm, and other things are possible without.

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I don't beleive in any god, but I do beleive that a good person has a good life, aka karma. It's logical actually, as being negative aroudn others makes them sadder or madder, therefore making them more negative. Evantually epople will be sadder, and you'll feel it from people who you've been negative around, and you'll become more negative. And the same with positivity, it's pretty logical, actually. But seeing as this isn't really religion, I probably should paint the toast and be quiet.

Scientology.


[size=0]Just kidding.[/size]

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Still I only feel alive when the vu’s flashing, bombs going off in my head

I don't really follow any kind of religion. But, I do sometimes think there is something else, you know, watching over or whatever.

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Guten tag, Johann, du riechst ganz richtig. Danke schon, Heidi. Und du auch. - A Bit of Fry and Laurie

Just so you know (and I'm neither Christian nor Athiest) that to a non Christian you are saying something similar to... let's see:

"For you atheist[s] out there, it's better to believe in unicorns and smurfs, and maybe go to Candyland, than it is to not believe in Candyland, smurfs, or unicorns and risk going to Middle Earth."

Do you see? Do you see what the concept of not believing in something is? Don't get disbelief and denial mixed up.

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I'm a member of the Church of the SubGenius.

my whole family pretty much lives by that idea... cept maybe my grandma (not hugely religious, but some kinda christianity maybe)... but we still make a point to learn about other religions and stuff, and me and my sisters were encouraged to attend sunday school so we could see a different viewpoint

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I draw. Lots.

I've changed my thinkings a few times, but now I've sorta got a mixture of pantheism with some original thinking and a positive perspective. I'm proud to say that I came to this conclusion myself, too, and I didn't copy off an organised religion.

The main idea is that there isn't a deity but the universe itself is just as important and worthy of reverence. Also, every living thing has a soul but some are more developed than others (soul "size" pretty much goes hand-in-hand with brain size), and souls are part of the universe itself. When you die you sorta go back to the universe as a whole, and even though you're still there in a sense you lose your own identity - think the Borg Collective without the "resistence is futile" thing. So the best part of existence is when you're alive.

The other main thing isn't really a religious thing, but it is a belief I have. There isn't a meaning of life, but this is a good thing. You see, if there were a meaning of life then naturally everyone would have to follow it for their life to have meaning. But the way it is now, you make your own meaning for life and follow that. And that way you fulfil your life in your own way.

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"They've taken Mr Rimmer! Sir, they've taken Mr Rimmer!"
"Quick, let's get outta here before they bring him back!"

I've heard this theory somewhere that seems pretty logical and believable to me. It goes something like this:
As part of an experiment, God creates the universe, he creates man and all other life, he tells them how he thinks they should act to keep man alive. Then he sits back and observes what happens. No interferance. God just watches us. He won't do anything to or for us. No matter how much we ask. Otherwise he's ruin the experiment.
I think that's reasonable enough.

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Guten tag, Johann, du riechst ganz richtig. Danke schon, Heidi. Und du auch. - A Bit of Fry and Laurie

Really, people would consider me a Christian (which is basicly what I am), but I'm more non-denominational than anything. I believe what I think is true about God, what my heart tells me is true.

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ARROW'D!

*rolls eyes at Needle Dog's post*

I just recently came across a site by a former agnostic/deist that's ... well, pretty darned extensive.

I haven't looked into it in detail, but this article caught my eye almost immediately, since I'm sick and tired of atheists equating belief in God to belief in invisible pink unicorns, the flying spaghetti monster, leprechauns, Santa Claus, and whatever the heck else--and believing that their so-called "parodies" 'force' people to look at the 'truth' about their religions.

Invisible Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and God by Rich Deem

"The idea that God is a made-up concept to soothe our fears makes no sense, since we reject the existence of other made-up figures that might, likewise, make us feel better. A comparison between the existence of God (a non-contingent being) and the existence of Santa Claus or invisible pink unicorns (contingent beings) fails on many levels, not the least of which is that their fundamental natures (non-physical vs. physical) are vastly different. The idea that there is no evidence to support the existence of God is clearly false. The evidence was clear enough for me to convert from agnosticism to deism in the absence of efforts by theists. Anthony Flew, a lifelong proponent of atheism recently became a deist on the basis of evidence for design. In subsequent interviews, Flew stated that he "had to go where the evidence leads." Philosophical arguments like invisible pink unicorns are great ways to avoid examining evidence, but such an approach is ultimately dishonest."

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You know, that was pretty much what I kept trying to tell Upsilon a few month's back.

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My point is that if they don't believe in it you shouldn't argue that they are simply ignoring god. It comes off as condesending. I understand that from your point of view that athiests simply don't "get it," but you have to look at things from their shoes, where there is no god and you are the ones that (from their point of view) don't "get it".

Also, I'm not athiest.
(or agnostic for that matter)
I'm just bored of the ongoing battle between the two, so I thought I'd throw in a comment or two.

Also, I'm simply bored.

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This is exciting. I'm about to be ordained as a minister.

That sounds like "deism", Sean. Click link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

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"They've taken Mr Rimmer! Sir, they've taken Mr Rimmer!"
"Quick, let's get outta here before they bring him back!"

A few weeks ago I got into a fight with an atheist (no, not anyone here) who kept trying to say that theists merely believe because they are afraid of death. He kept telling me "you're going to wake up and see theism is based on fear."

He also extended this accusation ot Deists, while (at the same time) accusing them of "being afraid of admitting their true lack of belief in an imaginary friend." Jeez. That's like a Christian saying Jews are too stubborn to accept Jesus as their savior. >_>

Here's what I don't get about his extending that accusation to Deists. They just believe there is some sort of divinity. They don't necessarily believe in an afterlife, or heaven, or hell. Why the heck does deism equate with fear? What about Bhuddists? Even though I'm not sure if they believe in a divinity or not ... don't they believe the highest desired state is Nirvana, a state of nothingness--something they strive to achieve?

Anyways, arguing with that particular atheist was like trying to argue with Maddox, or something--he was convinced he was right and repeatedly made up things I said to argue against and declare himself awesome. He even admitted to being narccissist ... ugh ...



Two wrongs don't make a right, dude. I'm all for equality as far as religious beliefs go--harassing theists by calling their religions and belief in a divine being the same as believing in something whimsical that they made up ten seconds ago doesn't set things right. This is what irritates me about atheists who prance around going "LOLZ! IMAGINARY FRIEND! FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! INVISIBLE PINK UNICORN!"

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I seem to have accidentally pushed your buttons. I've moved past the fantasy figures- I apologise for that. I don't get into theological debates, so I had no idea it was a sore spot.

My first comment (for which I apologise) seems to be distracting you from my point - It doesn't make sence to tell someone that they shold believe in something that they don't belive exists. I don't think they are disbelieving god out of spite or anything.

On the other side of things- I find it sad that so many athiests seem to be jabbing at your religion. Your frustrations are understandable.

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First off, what Discount Brick was doing is called "Pascal's Wager." Blaise Pascal, a French 17th century philosopher and mathmetician came up with the idea--Pascal believed that according to game theory and statistics it's "safer" to believe in God than not to.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia.


The problem with Pascal's Wager is that it isn't so easily categorized--there are a large number of imaginable possibilities concerning the nature of divinity and the afterlife (though we Christians, obviously, have a certain belief). That's not including the fact that various Christian denominations can be at odds with eachother and believe that they are the only ones that will be saved based on their interpretation of the Bible and views, while other denominations won't be (I've seen this in real life).

I actually use Pascal's Wager in this sense to show why, in a sense, I do not believe as I do out of fear (because as I told Didymus once, I could very likely wind up in Hell for coming to the beliefs I have ... If God is only going to save, say, Lutherans, well ... y'know. Didymus will be tapdancing in Heaven and we're all gonna burn). I came to my beliefs out of reason. And that narccissist atheist I mentioned in my previous post completely ignored this.

Pascal, however, NEVER intended this to be the basis for believing in God. He meant this for people who didn't think that God's existence was worth considering.


At any rate, yes, you pushed my buttons. It's a sore spot because I have been exposed to this a LOT over the past few weeks--especially once I started searching for information concerning something I'm working on.

Maybe I'm alone in the matter, but I think their whole strategy of argumentum ad absurdum by equating religious belief to that of belief in the FSM, IPU, or whatever else, demonstrates a severe lack of respect for religious people ...

... Well, what am I saying? I've seen atheists call for the outlawing of religion, claiming religions are 'our only true enemy!' There's a group out there who sells a t-shirt/bumper sticker/etc. with an image of a stick figure dumping religious symbols (not just Christian!) into a wastebasket with "THANK YOU FOR NOT LITTERING YOUR MIND" ... I have an image of atheists who protested the Pope's visting the U.S. with huge banners saying "God is make-believe" ... Another of Italian atheists protesting God's existence at the Vatican ... and a sign atheists put up at (I think) a church at Christmas saying "During this season of the WINTER SOLSTICE may Reason prevail. There is no God. No angels. No demons. No heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that heardens hearts and enslaves minds." And then a little snarky line in fine print, "Thou shalt not steal this sign."

I know atheists aren't the only people to show disrespect for other religions. What I call for is for people, yes, even evangelists, to show toleration and some semblance of respect between religious positions.

I've said this all before, so I won't ramble. In fact, I said it in a thread I'm about to link to--but if you're an evangelist, doing the whole fire and brimstone act (or in an atheist case, insane and irrational act) is only going to turn people off and make them hostile to your beliefs.

Witness what happened here. Not quite fire-and-brimostone attempt at conversion, but it shows the kind of reaction you get. "Wow! You just made me happer that I'm not a Christian! !"

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That's too bad. Most athiests I know never even think about religion, more less care about what other people believe.

One question though. In a faith based religion wouldn't it be wrong to believe out of fear, as deep down they would know that they were only pretending to believe? Or, as I've always assumed, is it good enough that they've lived a life using the bible as a moral base? I of course, find the second one more comforting since that implies that Christians believe that people with good souls that are of a different faith would also go to heaven. (forgive me if I'm a bit ignorant, I'm probably simplifying things to an absurd degree)

[edit] you know, this has probably come up in that other thread, and I just realised that I've jacked this thread. So I'm going to look around a bit.

I'm Buddhist by the way. (see I can stay on topic)

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Well, it doesn't hurt anything to follow a religion. If you are an atheist an any religion is true, you will go to hell (or whatever happens to people who don't follow the true religion.) However, if you believe in any religion, you have a chance of your religion being the "right one."

About Pascal's Wager: it is also not an argument that stands alone. Pascal died before he could complete his book, and all we have left are the notes collected and published under the title Pensees. Trev is pretty much right: the argument was mainly intended to show that these things were worth thinking about and should not be simply dismissed. As to why Pascal thought that the answer to the problem was Christianity? You'd have to read the rest of the Pensees for that.

Furthermore, the popular way of stating the Wager, as quoted by Trev, is a highly simplified form of it. There is actually a mathematical formula behind it that Pascal developed from his gambling days.

One of my philosophy professors, Dr. Woods, sent me a book by a guy named Tom Morris, Making Sense Of It All: Pascal and the Meaning of Life.

As for religion based on fear: the Bible says, "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." I would stress, however, that there is a distinct difference between fear of the Lord and fear of hell or other punishment, and it has to do with recognizing that God is in fact in charge of all things. But the command is, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength," so really, the highest motive for worshiping, serving, believing in God is love for him. So is it fear or love? The answer is "yes."

But we Christians do not believe that morality is the way to God. Why? Because if morality were the way to God, then all of us would be screwed. All of us in some way or another have failed; if we are honest with ourselves, we would admit this. Morality, for the Christian, is an expression of love for God (and, to some extent, fear, since, in obeying him, we also recognize he is in charge). For the Christian, the way to God is the Cross, for it is in the Cross that God reveals his self-giving nature to its fullest extent. And if God were not self-giving, we'd all still be screwed, for we would be lost without him. Furthermore, to reject this supreme act of self-giving is to reject the one who made the sacrifice, namely God.

As a professional pastoral caregiver, I have had opportunities to work in numerous addiction rehab situations (including substance, gambling, and sexual addictions). The first three steps of the 12 Step method I think apply very well to understanding the Christian view of our place before God.

1. We are helpless.

2. We are in need of someone who can restore us (namely God).

3. We must therefore turn our lives and wills over to him so that he can restore us (for the Christian, this means coming to the Cross).

This is why we Christians believe as we do, and why we do not place much trust in other religions.

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eh, not true. Many religions don't have a "hell". I don't believe you need to be enlightened to live a holy life, it simply helps us to see the big picture.

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I think we've gone off topic a bit here, talking about Pascal's Wager and suchlike. Toastpaint, peoples.

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"They've taken Mr Rimmer! Sir, they've taken Mr Rimmer!"
"Quick, let's get outta here before they bring him back!"

Jerome is probably right. And each is sold separately.

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I'm Christian, and an active member of the LDS church. Good day to all y'alls

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Welcome, WMC. There's quite a few LDS's here too.

I've edited my other post. Happy? Meh, I admit, I didn't think you'd react like that.



You're not allowed to cast spells(even good ones) on anyone else unless they ask first, but it's still not reccommended, so no need to worry.

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i'd be interested to hear someone explain the LDS point of view on beliefs... i read the wiki on it but i don't really understand what they believe still. just out of curiosity.

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I draw. Lots.

Im heavy into Catholisism (I realize the irony if I spelt that wrong). I go by everything the bible says. And I mean it when i say BIBLE SAYS. Some people of great importance confuse thier own moral values with actual main parts in the bible turning things into hot button issues. Like abortion, some people would say that its murder thus, being a sin, but I say that if you do get an abortion but have remorse for it, then god will forgive you. I do not think Gay marriage is a sin becasue the one time it mentions it is in one of the apostles letters. Now, not to sound like dont think the apostles arent good and all, but they arent Jesus, the one that wrote that one tiny fottnote was just adding moral beliefs into his faith and in turn screwed it up for a bunch of other folks. I have a bunch of other things i want ot say but this is long as it is so im going to stop.

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Maybe you could be a little more specific? It'd help a bit. Thanks.

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