Really, the person that these people know as Terry Schaivo is now gone. If you look at the MRIs of her brain from years before her heart attack and resulting brain damage, you can tell immediately that it's all lost:
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| Terri Schiavo http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2377 |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:17 am ] |
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Can we get back on topic? |
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| Author: | Stu [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:52 am ] |
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Beyond the Grave wrote: Can we get back on topic?
One post off topic, and we are already that antsy??? Talking about the pain vs painless issue. Do you think that she is still feeling pain? She certainly isn't reacting to it, or she wouldn't be classified as the vegative state that she currently is in. The only problem I have starving her (dehydrating to be technical), is it would be difficult on her family. It seems that they still care for her (even her husband). I can't imagine how tough it would be to sit and see her dying, with nothing that you can do. But I suppose she has been doing that for the last 10 years, just considerably slower. Anyway, it is getting late and I am rambling. We'll see how things progress/regress as the night goes on. |
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| Author: | paxman356 [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:57 pm ] |
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The USA Today article about how Michael and the Schindlers used to be so close, but fell apart because of greed on both parts, just sums this one up for me. Not to mention the likes of Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist, taking Terri and using her to further his cause. Don't forget, someone will have their feeding tube removed today, and another will die. This drama happens every day. Why is Terri more special than them? |
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| Author: | Mr. Sparkle [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:55 pm ] |
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If she didn't want to feel pain she wouldn't have been bulimic in the first place. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:35 am ] |
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Let the poor woman have some dignity and let her die. Bulimia and Anorexia are known to cause heart attacks and Cardiac arrest, but thats only in Extreme cases |
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| Author: | Jitka [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:50 am ] |
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A man from my region was arrested for trying to give her a glass of water. I think that it's better to die than live a meaningless life. Who knows what we may be depriving her of by keeping her alive? |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:00 am ] |
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But who knows what we may be depriving her of by letting her die? |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:31 pm ] |
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Didymus wrote: But who knows what we may be depriving her of by letting her die?
Like depiving her of a life in a vegatative state. Oh what fun. |
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| Author: | Ricksea [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:37 pm ] |
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Schiavo's brain is now completely liquid, so she is feeling absolutely nothing. Terry feels no happiness, sadness, comfort, or pain, so it doesn't matter she's killed because she feels nothing. All that matters is the people around her and time itself. Her husband already has another life, and her parents think that there's still hope. A week ago I would have said to hold on to her life for a possible change, but all hope is lost. There's no way she's getting out of this alive so just let her die. |
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| Author: | thefreakyblueman [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:50 pm ] |
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Really, the person that these people know as Terry Schaivo is now gone. If you look at the MRIs of her brain from years before her heart attack and resulting brain damage, you can tell immediately that it's all lost:
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| Author: | Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:52 am ] |
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Would you be happy Didymus if you got to have a crack at her? If she was still unresponsive what would you do? |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:41 am ] |
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Exactly what I would do with the residents up here that are unresponsive: still care about them as though they were God's children. |
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| Author: | Clever Danielle [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:44 am ] |
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My stepmom said the awesome-est thing the other day (er, a few hours ago). She wants Terry what's-her-name and the pope guy to die on the same day. Wouldn't that be the creepiest?! |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:40 am ] |
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thefreakyblueman wrote: Really, the person that these people know as Terry Schaivo is now gone. If you look at the MRIs of her brain from years before her heart attack and resulting brain damage, you can tell immediately that it's all lost:
You might want to read THIS ARTICLE. |
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| Author: | Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:48 am ] |
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I just want to clear this up, I almost had a member of my family like this so I know a bit more of how it is. I'm not saying to treat Terri like a plant because she may or may not be, but care for her as a person who is in a situation where if asked 10 or 15 years earlier would say "pull the plug" Didymus wrote: Exactly what I would do with the residents up here that are unresponsive: still care about them as though they were God's children.
And if it were the wishes of the family to pull the plug? The amount of pull you have around the nursing home and the family's decision is only how much the family of the person in question believes in god and your work. |
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| Author: | Jitka [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:41 pm ] |
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I thought I'd mention that she died this morning. I don't know what kind of impact this will have on the debate, but it certainly changes it. |
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| Author: | ramrod [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:53 pm ] |
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JohnTheTinyCowboy wrote: I thought I'd mention that she died this morning. I don't know what kind of impact this will have on the debate, but it certainly changes it. It is a shame that she died. It's truely sad. But what's worse is the way she was kept alive for 15 years, with no chance of recovery.
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| Author: | ModestlyHotGirl [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:06 pm ] |
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Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote: And if it were the wishes of the family to pull the plug? The amount of pull you have around the nursing home and the family's decision is only how much the family of the person in question believes in god and your work.
I don't think that's what Didymus meant, really. It's been said before that certain family members can decide what happens to a patient if they haven't signed a DNR themselves, and if the spouse/child/whoever has power of attorney decides to "pull the plug", then, legally, that's what medical professionals must do. I think what Didymus meant was that if the family decided to keep a "vegetative" patient alive, that he would care for that patient just as he would one who was responsive. Well, Ms. Schiavo has died. It is sad, but to me, what's sadder is the way she died. I just can't get over the cruelty of dehydrating and starving a person. But I'm happy that she's no longer suffering (whether consciously or not). I don't really know how I feel; I've kind of been on the fence with this one the whole time. I guess all that's left is to be relieved that the whole ordeal is over. Let's hope Mel Gibson doesn't make a movie about this. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:51 pm ] |
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Let this be a lesson to all of us. Remeber to put in your wills what you want in case of this situation |
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| Author: | Mr. Sparkle [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:50 pm ] |
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Thank god she's dead. |
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| Author: | Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:54 pm ] |
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That's a horrible thing to say |
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| Author: | AgentSeethroo [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:58 pm ] |
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Perhaps he means "Thank God she's not suffering any more" right? |
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| Author: | Naked_Lunch [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:29 pm ] |
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God I hope so. |
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| Author: | InvaderTK [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:43 pm ] |
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ModestlyHotGirl wrote: Let's hope Mel Gibson doesn't make a movie about this.
Let's hope. 
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| Author: | Mr. Sparkle [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:28 pm ] |
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AgentSeethroo wrote: Perhaps he means "Thank God she's not suffering any more"
right? Yes that and that the media will focus more on REAL issues. |
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| Author: | Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:36 pm ] |
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Mr. Sparkle wrote: Yes that and that the media will focus more on REAL issues.
What's more real than life or death when it's out of your hands for one reason or another. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:37 am ] |
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Quote: And if it were the wishes of the family to pull the plug? The amount of pull you have around the nursing home and the family's decision is only how much the family of the person in question believes in god and your work.
Actually, it's not even my place to tell the families what to do. Their decision is their decision. If they chose to "pull the plug," all I could do is support their decision. But in a case like this one, where the family is in conflict over it, I can help them to consider both sides and try to make an informed decision, and hopefully one in which the whole family would have some measure of trust. What I have done in this thread is to communicate the side that most people seem to be ignoring: the option for life. The last time I checked, life is indeed a valid option, and the fact that the rest of the family wanted to let her live at least in my mind shows a degree of selfishness on the part of the husband. What I saw in the news was his claim that she wanted to die. What I did not see was how this decision was effecting him. The parents are obviously heartbroken about their daughter's death, whereas the husband seems only to be celebrating his court victory. So great: he's managed to legally force his will on the parents. I said it about a dozen times, and I'll say it again: this is exactly why you want your end-of-life choices clearly and legally defined by a Living Will and Do Not Resuscitate orders. It will save your family this kind of agony. Contrary to media hype, this case is not about Right to Die, but about who has the right to determine for another whether to exercise that right. That's why documentation is so important: make sure your family knows what your wishes are so they won't have to argue about them. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:38 pm ] |
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AgentSeethroo wrote: Perhaps he means "Thank God she's not suffering any more"
right? Yeah that's what he meant |
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| Author: | paxman356 [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:04 pm ] |
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Has anyone but me read the Wolfson report? This is the guardian ad litum (GAL) that was issued by the court to determine the wishes of Terri in this case. In it I found some surprising facts: In 1990, when Terri was found incompitent by the courts, Michael was given guardianship, which was mutually agreed upon by her parents. The Schindlers not only encouraged Michael to date, but introduced him to his current "fiance". While the families were close for the first 3 years of Terri's condition, by 1994, they had not only fallen apart, but the Schindlers filed to have Michael's guardianship removed. A March 1st, 1994 report by another GAL appointed to investigate possible abuse by Michael showed none. In 2002, five doctors, two from each family and one from the court, examined Terri and gave their recomendations. Michael's doctors and the court appointed doctor agreed that Terri did not show any chance for improvement, the Schindler's doctors did not. The court sided with Michael. In 1999, it was ruled in the Florida that life-prolonging procedures were to be redefined as: "any medical procedure, treatment or intervention, including artificially provided sustinance and hydration, which sustains, restores or supplants a spontanious vital function." This made artificial feeding through a tube artificial life support. If you look at the brain scans of Terri, you can see that much of her brain has deteriorated and has no chance to recover. If it was Terri's wish to not live this way, to have her soul locked in a body where she cannot think, feel, or do anything, then what has happened is right and just by the letter of the law. If it wasn't her wish, then she was murdered. Anyone who wants to say it is a cruel way to die has bought into the myth of the right-to-life groups that have given this case national attention. I don't know what makes Terri so special, but cases like this happen every day. Where are their stories? People have an agenda in this case, be careful about who you listen to when you want to know the truth. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:51 pm ] |
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I do not believe that this case has anything to do with right to die or with abortion rights at all (why does the media keep trying to relate this case to abortion? That makes no freaking sense to me). The issue is about who gets the right to speak on behalf of someone who is unresponsive. |
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