Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Purpose and meaning do not fall within the realm of what you call "scientific and verifiable." They are transcendent. This does not mean they do not exist, only that they do not correspond to your own expectations of proof and evidence. In this, I can only submit my own life, my own experiences, as you, no doubt, can only appeal to yours (or lack thereof, considering that you are arguing non-existence).

As evidence, I can only submit that I myself have witnessed God's guiding hand upon me these past several years, particularly in the last. I can submit as witnesses to these events Rev. Joel Hempel of Lutheran Senior Services' Clinical Pastoral Education Department, and my fellow chaplains at Laclede, Stephanie Meyer, Kathleen Trollenger, Roger Steinbrueck, Kevin Cook, and Perry Sukstorff. I can also submit Rev. Weldon Brinkley, my current supervising pastor, and several members of Faith Lutheran Church and Good Shepherd Lutheran Church. I could submit one or two members of this forum, but I might be violating confidence in doing so.

So what is this purpose I've discovered? I've already said it here before: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. What exactly is so disagreeable about either of these commands that you feel compelled to refute them?

_________________

That is true, there IS no evidence that there is a purpose. Perhaps the purpose IS to find evidence. Hmm.. It's a head scratcher.

I am illogical, then.
Somehow, on judgement day, I don't think I'll really care.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

This might very well fall within the realm of what St. Paul meant by, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor 1:18).

_________________

Wow.. Sad that those who need it the most find it the most foolish, eh Didy?

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

In other words, you've got nothing. Good to know.

I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, or that you should abandon them, merely that they are illogical.

I personally have several illogical beliefs of my own, but I recognize and admit that they are irrational.

I wouldn't say they were illogical; rather, I'd say that I'm merely following the evidence I have available to me to its ultimate conclusion.

_________________

Yet you don't have any evidence, or at least none that you've shown me.

Face it: Belief in something for which there is no objective evidence (e.g God) is irrational. However, that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. We can't be expected to be perfectly logical and rational all the time. I'm just asking you to recognize the separation between religious beliefs and verifiable scientific evidence.

But I've already told you: I have evidence. And I even cited you witnesses to that evidence. Since it is of a personal nature, I do not feel comfortable sharing all the details of it with you. In fact, I've only shared this information with about three, maybe four people on this forum. But I will tell you this: it isn't about feelings or subjective interpretations. It's about events that have occurred in my life that prove to me beyond doubt that God is in fact at work.

That is part of the reason why I specifically stated that this is evidence available to me. I did not say that it was or ever would be available to you. But needless to say, since it is in fact available to me (and to those witnesses I cited above), it would be very difficult for anyone to convince me I'm wrong about it. That is why I stated also that, at least from my perspective, there is nothing illogical about it.

_________________

So, what you're saying is: "I have evidence, but I'm not going to tell you".

Excuse me if I don't find that convincing.

No, he said he had proof and related what he felt comfortable relating to you.. The rest involves things that are none of our business. I think..

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Isn't that exactly what I just said?

If he has this evidence, he should present it to me.

Otherwise, it's worthless in this debate and might as well not exist in the first place.

Your asking me to trust you in a way that I do not, and cannot, trust just anybody. This is the kind of stuff I can only share with my dearest, most intimate friends. And right now, I do not feel like I can trust you with this, especially since by the same token, you are basically saying to me that you're not going to trust me. From my perspective, you are asking far more of me than I am of you.

And as far as I'm concerned, this isn't a matter for debate, anyway. I'm just telling you that you have no right to tell me that God has no purpose for my life when I have already seen that he does.

_________________

As I said, I'm not telling you to abandon your beliefs, just realize that they are irrational, since you have no evidence.

Even though you claim you do, I think the real reason you won't tell it to me is because you have none. I won't demand that you show me this evidence, you should just realize that if you're not prepared to present it, then you should not have even brought it up in the first place, and it cannot be used in a debate.

It seems that he does have evidence, though. He has experiences that lead him to a conclusion. The evidence for Christ must be personally discovered. If and when you accept Christ, an I pray you will, someday, you'll understand.. It's kind of like in Star Trek IV (the whale one) where Bones asked Spock what it was like to be dead, and his reply basically said that, without a common frame of reference, there was no way he could explain it to him. It's sort of the same in this situation.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

And that just shows how little you know about me as a person, Trog-dork. If you ever accuse me of lying again, it will be the last time I ever answer you.

_________________

I can't think of any other reason why someone would claim to have evidence but refuse to present it.

That's effectively the same thing as having no evidence.

Do you honestly expect me to just take your word for it?

Why not? You seem to expect me to share with you things about me that only my most trusted friends are privileged to see. Are you willing to share such secrets about your life with me, on this forum, where everone can see them? If not, then shut up.

Incidentally, that other reason, the one you have trouble thinking of, is this word: privacy.

As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. I am no liar, and will not tolerate you calling me one. If you need me, I'll be cleaning my shoes.

_________________

Actually, it's because there are elements of Didy's life that are none of our business. That doesn't mean that those experiences don't exist. The government has weapons and vehicles that they won't share with you, but I'm guessing they still exist.. It's the same thing.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

That's just fine, but if he doesn't want to tell me these things, then he shouldn't have mentioned them in the first place. If you're in a debate and you say you have evidence to support your side, you're generally expected to present it.

Is that all you care about, Trog-dork, rules of debate? Does it ever dawn on you that you might actually be talking about people's lives? Things that might actually have more impact than these rules of debate you seem to like so much? You're all head and no heart, and that's precisely why I don't feel like I can trust you.

_________________

Okay, put yourself in my position for a bit here:

1. We're in a debate. I ask you for evidence supporting your side.

2. You say you have evidence.

3. I ask; "Well, what is it?"

4. You say "I don't want to tell you."

I mean, what the crap? If you're in a debate (and we WERE in a debate, don't try to deny that), you can't just claim to have evidence and then not reveal it!

How am I supposed to consider, analyze, and respond to your evidence if you won't even tell me what it is!? Since you won't tell me what it is, for all intents and purposes, you have none.

I'm not trying to insult your privacy or anything, but honestly, you can't just say you have evidence, but not say what it is, and then expect people to just believe you anyway! That's ridiculous! If this stuff is private, like you said, and you don't want to discuss it, then you should never have brought it up in the first place.

Iisten kid, you're new here. Picking a fight with Didymus isn't a good idea. He's one of the most respected members, if you're dissing him, you're dissing the rest of us. It doesn't even matter if you're doing it on purpose.Here, we respect each others' beliefs, even if they happen to be different from our own. We don't judge them or their beliefs to be stupid, strange, wrong, or illogical. Can't handle that? Leave.

He has beliefs, those beliefs are based on his personal experiences, and are quite logical based on said experiences. It's not your place to say whether or not his beliefs are logical. To even suggest he should open his life to you just stinks of arrogance. I've said my peace and have no further business with you.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Oh, don't start that. I can't believe you're acting like I'm the agressor here and he should be all insulted. If anything, I'm the one who should feel insulted, since he's trying to make me believe what he says when he straight - out refuses to provide any evidence!

This is just getting ridiculous. How hard is it to understand that, even if you have evidence, refusing to provide it means it can't be used to back up your claims? I am NOT going to just trust some stranger on an internet message board when he says he has evidence, but refuses to back it up. Do you understand? It is not a matter of being insulting, it's just a matter of common sense.

Who the crap said we were in a debate? All I did was point out that you have no right to try to tell us--that is, those of us who do know what the purpose of life is--that we don't know what we're talking about. When you get right down to it, the only one here who considers this even a debate is you. All I did was give you my reasons for believing that I have, in fact, discovered the meaning and purpose of life, which is essentially that I myself have seen God at work. You insist that the only way you'll accept my word for it is if I share every ugly detail of it with you, to which I say, FINE! You freaking win "the debate." You happy now? Meanwhile, in the process, you've basically accused me of being a liar, for which you have yet to offer any substantial proof or, what would be more appropriate, an apology. You have neither convinced me that you are right, nor done a whole lot to earn my confidence or good will. If anything, your remarks have served only to further alienate me, making me even less willing to listen to anything you have to say.

At this point, Trog-dork, I really don't have anything else to say on the topic, and I bid you good night.

_________________

de·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v. intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.

This thread certainly falls under definition 2.

And it is completely ridiculous to just say that you're right but refuse to provide evidence.

It's even worse to get all angry and upset when someone points out your fallacious reasoning. That's called being a sore loser. You act insulted because I didn't believe you, but really, why SHOULD I believe you? You're a person I know absolutely nothing about, and have only known for a week or two, and you said you had evidence, but refused to provide it. So then why should I believe you? There's no reason, logically, for me to do so. How would you feel if I told you I had conclusive proof that you were wrong, but I didn't want to tell it to you, but then when you called me on it, I got all insulted because you called me a liar? Do you understand?

Just stop, Troggy. At this point, you're wasting your freaking time.

_________________

I can't believe you are acting like I'm the one being all insulting and you're the victim!

This is ludicrous!

Why should I believe something just because some random person on the internet, who I have NEVER MET BEFORE, and KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, says it's true, and REFUSES TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE!? WHY!?
THERE IS NO REASON WHY!!!!! Only a gullible fool would believe something just because someone they don't know on the internet told them it was true.

If someone comes to you, tells you something you don't believe is true, then refuses to provide evidence to back it up, and you tell them you don't believe them, then they get into a hissy fit and start yelling at you for calling them a liar, don't you see anything wrong with that!?

This has to be the most dishonest, insulting, ridiculous, illogical debating strategy I have ever heard of!!!!!!

Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? Is any of this getting through to you?

*cough*

Sorry Didy, Troggeh is winning this here argument.

I've posted stuff on this forum that are actually none of your bussiness but which help in a debate. If you for some reason wish to not show these examples, fine, but don't go on claiming you're right then.

Right now, it just looks to me like he's ranting. And again accusing me of lying. Troggy missed my main point entirely. It was not necessary for my purposes to give him all the details of my life. It was only necessary for me to demonstrate that it is possible for one person to have information not available to another. But what Troggy fails to realize is that he's asking me to trust him in ways that he does not deserve. At this point I really don't care; regardless of his opinions, he has no right to accuse me of lying. That was his mistake. I will not tolerate that from him. As I told him many a post ago, for my part, this discussion is over.

_________________

I'm fine with that, dude

*gives Troggy the trophy*