InterruptorJones wrote:
By whom, and for what? If you deserve to get banned, so do I, buddy. Unlike certain people I could name, none of the mods are in the business of punishing people for having dissenting opinions. 
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| Newspaper Article http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=355 |
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| Author: | Ingiald [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:13 pm ] |
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I could get banned based on rule 1 in the forum rules. |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:15 pm ] |
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Ingiald wrote: I could get banned based on rule 1 in the forum rules.
Generally speaking, rule 1 only applies if one of the rules 2-7 are broken. Nobody's going to ban you for disagreeing, as long as you're civil about it, and so far you have been. Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb. Er, forum. |
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| Author: | Ingiald [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:22 pm ] |
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Oh. Okay. Back on topic: The newspaper article makes sense, and it is a good point that people think that Bush is an idiot for getting us into a war against an enemy that probably never directly attacked us, whereas other presidents did the same thing, or worse. Take JFK, for example. He got us into what is probably the most looked-down-upon war in US history, but no one thinks he's an idiot. |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:24 pm ] |
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Ingiald wrote: Take JFK, for example. He got us into what is probably the most looked-down-upon war in US history, but no one thinks he's an idiot.
This is a good point. I don't know all that much about this period in history, but I think I'll look into it some more. I've always like JFK just because he's such a good lookin' guy and died in such a romantic way. (I hope when I die there will be conspiracy theories about it.) |
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| Author: | furrykef [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:26 pm ] |
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People always thought Bush was an idiot (both of 'em). I think it has more to do with their mannerisms than what they actually do/did. |
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| Author: | Ingiald [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:27 pm ] |
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Really? Do you hope to be a politician? |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:32 pm ] |
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Ingiald wrote: Really? Do you hope to be a politician?
Me? No, I sure don't. I just have a soft spot for conspiracy nuts. |
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| Author: | Ingiald [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:37 pm ] |
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Okay. Weird. Well, in refference to the main topic, many people think Bush is an idiot for getting us into a war that he had no right to start. I have an example of another president that did a similar thing, but I'm only saying it if I'm promised I won't get banned or flamed. |
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| Author: | JoeyDay [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:12 pm ] |
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InterruptorJones wrote: By whom, and for what? If you deserve to get banned, so do I, buddy. Unlike certain people I could name, none of the mods are in the business of punishing people for having dissenting opinions.
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| Author: | JoeyDay [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:15 pm ] |
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Ingiald wrote: Okay. Weird. Well, in refference to the main topic, many people think Bush is an idiot for getting us into a war that he had no right to start. I have an example of another president that did a similar thing, but I'm only saying it if I'm promised I won't get banned or flamed.
Ingiald, you have my word. No one is getting banned for having and/or expressing an opinion. Stu and I are both playing around with the little devil faces. |
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| Author: | Ingiald [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:37 pm ] |
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I don't want to be flamed, either. I'm just making sure no one starts insulting me and giving me headaches. |
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| Author: | talkz2much [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:33 pm ] |
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Wow, quite a bit happened when I wasn't here. Thanks to Jones for the websites, and thanks to everyone for getting the article. 
Another thing I would like to add is that in every war or conflict, there is going to be groups of people who don't want to go to war for different reasons. I know many people believe that war in Iraq is not justified, but when it does end, a lot of good things may come from it that out-weight the bad, and we should wait until the whole conflict is said and done before we claim that going to Iraq was a waste of money, time, and troops. Not trying to start an argument there, just a thought. Hope you guys get what I'm trying to say. |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:41 pm ] |
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talkz2much wrote: we should wait until the whole conflict is said and done before we claim that going to Iraq was a waste of money, time, and troops.
This would be fine if it weren't for that last bit. We're talking about human life here. While you wait for the war to "run its course", another 100 Americans and another 500 Iraqis are going to die at its expense. Maybe I'm nitpicking, here, but I'm a little offended that you put "troops" last, after "money" and "time". I sincerely hope that's not an indication of your priorities, but sadly, I don't think it's contrary to the White House's priorities. This isn't the Cold War. Your neighbors are dying. People's wives and husbands and mothers and fathers and children are dying. I'm ready for the "conflict" to be over right now. I don't think that another month or year or decade is really going leave us, or the Iraqis, or the world any better off. |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:52 pm ] |
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By the way: iraqbodycount.net. I just did some quick math, and that comes out to an average of about 23 deaths per day. That's almost one an hour. Going by this, nine people might have died as a result of this war since I got out of bed this morning. Five since you started this thread. Just so you have a point of reference. |
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| Author: | talkz2much [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:10 pm ] |
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Quote: I'm a little offended that you put "troops" last, after "money" and "time". I sincerely hope that's not an indication of your priorities
That was by no means an indication of my priorities, and I'm truly sorry that I offended you. I'm not one for war or death, and I would like it to be over too. I understand people are dying. I have a good friend who's going into the army soon and someone from my church is already stationed in Iraq, and I'd hate for either of them to be killed. It's just really hard to explain what I'm trying to say. Sorry to anyone else who may have gotten the wrong idea. 
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| Author: | StrongCanada [ Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:22 pm ] |
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talkz2much wrote: That was by no means an indication of my priorities, and I'm truly sorry that I offended you. I'm not one for war or death, and I would like it to be over too.
Don't worry, I think we all knew where your priorities were, IJ was just making a point. Human life is the highest priority in this whole situation. That's why I feel luke-warm about this war (I know, I know - if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything - I get that a lot). I agree that something needed to be done about Saddam - the guy has been mercilessly slaughtering HIS OWN PEOPLE ever since he's been in power, however, I'm not certain that this war was the answer, but perhaps it was...Whether you support Bush or not, I think all our hearts go out to the troops, fighting for the country. |
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:31 pm ] |
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StrongCanada wrote: Whether you support Bush or not, I think all our hearts go out to the troops, fighting for the country.
Well, I don't know exactly what they're fighting for, but I know that they enlisted because of their patriotism and commitment to liberty, and I have nothing but respect for that. In my hometown, a bunch of bumper stickers popped up awhile back that said "Hug a soldier, not a tree." I can't think of a more short-sighted, propagandist message (the implication being that people who make the environment a priority must hate soldiers). Thankfully a week later someone printed a ton of "Hug a soldier AND a tree" bumper stickers. Those are the people who have their priorities straight. I don't know a single person who harbors any ill will toward soldiers, and the right-wing "if you oppose the war, you must oppose sodiers/patriotism/freedom" jibberish makes me more angry than just about anything. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:39 am ] |
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Some of the vets I work with are Vietnam vets. When they returned from serving their country (under conditions I can only begin to imagine from the few stories they were willing to share with me), they were often resented and abused. So if you're going to hug a soldier, try to find one who served in Vietnam. They need it. |
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| Author: | StrongCanada [ Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:40 am ] |
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InterruptorJones wrote: I don't know a single person who harbors any ill will toward soldiers, and the right-wing "if you oppose the war, you must oppose sodiers/patriotism/freedom" jibberish makes me more angry than just about anything.
AGREED'D!!! I'd also like to go back to IJ's post about the Iraq body count...since IJ posted it, 5 more have died. 23 per day may not seem like much, but that's 690 per month (if you figure a month with 30 days in it). And I don't even want to think about the unneccessary numbers of our (your?? I consider them as fighting for me, since I live in the US now) men and women dying so far away from home. And the hostages on both sides that are being taken, and some killed - who are of many nationalities - in the name of war makes me sick. I think of that poor family who's son was beheaded awhile back. Maybe I don't hate Bush, but I do hate what this war is doing to everyone. If nothing else, it makes us all despise our brothers and sisters a little more (I mean that in the general sense...we are all a family here on this little planet) and that's heartbreaking. |
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| Author: | lumberpeg vegeplank [ Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:29 am ] |
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scanada wrote: (I know, I know - if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything - I get that a lot) I have heard this a lot too, but I don't necessarily think it's true. I think it's unhealthy for anyone to rush towards "the thesis of your life." I mean, that takes years and years.
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| Author: | InterruptorJones [ Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:52 am ] |
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lumberjack vegetable wrote: scanada wrote: (I know, I know - if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything - I get that a lot) I have heard this a lot too, but I don't necessarily think it's true. I think it's unhealthy for anyone to rush towards "the thesis of your life." I mean, that takes years and years.I guess I've heard similar sentiments, but not this exactly adage. I don't buy it either. It's good to have something to believe in, but to believe in something for the sake of believing in something doesn't make any sense. There are people out there who can't make heads or tails of the war, or can't find a compelling reason to vote for any candidate. That's really unfortunate, but it's still legitimate and not necessarily their fault. But that's why I encourage people to get educated. The web is such a useful tool for this, because you can read endless resources from all sides of each campaign, all over your lunch break. |
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