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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:19 pm 
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But I do not believe that God is our soul. The Bible says we were created in God's image, and some people think that that image is our soul (i.e., our self-awareness, our ability to reason, but I'm not real sure about all that--I think there's more to it than that), but not that the soul is God himself.

The Bible also teaches that, because of our fallen sinful nature, we are alienated and estranged from God. If the soul is God, then how is it even possible for us to be alienated and estranged? So, I see your point--if the soul is truly God in us, then we cannot be separated from him--but I am not convinced that the human soul is God. In fact, just the opposite. He is the Creator, and we are the creatures: there is a sharp distinction between him and us.

But there is a solution: while we were alienated from God, God demonstrated his love in a perfect act of self-sacrifice: his own death on the cross. In doing so, he reconciled us to himself. We can have peace with God through the blood of his cross. That's the good news.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:35 am 
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Tintin wrote:
Whether we go to Heaven or not depends not on the good we do/or dont but whether or not we accept what Jesus has done for us - (dying on the cross and rising to new life ) a gift of Grace, to save us from damnation. Basic Christianity.

Its his gift to us. The ultimate sacrifice. No one can save but Jesus. That's definetly not a reason to not care for fellow mankind. But without Jesus all our good works are nothing but dirty rags. May sound unfair to you but its Jesus working through Christians that makes our good works a spiritual blessing to others. Again not what we do, but what God can do through us.
Put it this way, if you were God (which you aren't) would you want people worshipping what you created (angels/parts of creation/idols?) I don't think so. He's a jealous God but also a loving God.

Hope this helps.

It has helped. I've just become gladder I'm not Christian.

No offence, Tintin. I guess honesty isn't always the best policy.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:01 am 
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Upsilon wrote:
Is that true? That you'll be punished with Hell for not attempting to make converts? I thought it was simply a matter of 'grace'.

Read James 2:17-26.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:59 am 
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No, you do not go to hell for not making converts. However, that is one of the purposes of the church, and Christians should still do it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:23 am 
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Actually, conversion has been one of the most annoying aspects of Church doctrine I've ever seen.

I've always believed that people deserve to have a choice of what religion they should follow, or if they should follow a religion therefore. God has put non-Christians into a non-Christian family, and I don't particularly want to mess around with that.

Why should a person go to hell because they were born non-Christians, since God presumably put them there? Take, for example, the people of countries that are completely ignorant of the Christian faiths. Do they deserve to go to hell?

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No No. You heard him wrong. As christians we are going to heaven.


Illogical. If somebody's a Christian, but commits statuatory rape, and murders their children, they're going to heaven? Unless I'm taking this from the wrong point of view...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:10 am 
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Gafaddict wrote:
Illogical. If somebody's a Christian, but commits statuatory rape, and murders their children, they're going to heaven? Unless I'm taking this from the wrong point of view...


If a Christian did that, I really doubt that they were a true Christian in the first place. However, if they did that stuff first but then later repented and became a Christian, they would go to heaven.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:22 am 
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Illogical. If somebody's a Christian, but commits statuatory rape, and murders their children, they're going to heaven? Unless I'm taking this from the wrong point of view...

Smorky's on the right track. Such a person is not living according to what God intends for him. Such a person is still living a depraved life and has not been cleansed of sin, regardless of his outward confession. I am about to post a sermon about being clothed with Christ. Just click the QT holding the sign.

To relate the quoted scenario to the sermon, that person would be like the guy in the parable who was found at the feast wearing filthy rags instead of festive garments.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:52 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
No, you do not go to hell for not making converts. However, that is one of the purposes of the church, and Christians should still do it.


Sorry, I didn't clarify. I didn't mean not converting meant one would go to Hell, I was just pointing out that without works, grace doesn't help.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:53 pm 
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I have always been tolerant of others religions but I NEVER EVER like someone trying to shove their religion down my agnostic throat.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:14 pm 
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The_Teach wrote:
I have always been tolerant of others religions but I NEVER EVER like someone trying to shove their religion down my agnostic throat.


just wondering this, but what religion are you? me, i am a,err...well... umm... lets just say prophit. err.... person who follows his own line of religion. err... i dont know how to describe or word it, but im a mix between a Christian, An Athiest, And a buddist( i wish to be enlightend)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:44 am 
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Didymus wrote:
In other words, our love for God should be our primary motive for everything else. Without love for God, love for one's neighbor still does not count for much. Why? Because it's relational, as I stated above. Even if one were to love one's neighbor wholeheartedly, if one has no love for God, then there still is no basis of a relationship with God.

To sum up, the vertical relationship is far more important, and is in fact the basis for, all horizontal relationships. But it is interesting that, both taken together, form the sign of the cross.


Corinthians 13:2 "If I have the gift of prophesy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."

Doesn't this show that love is more important?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:57 am 
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No. Because without faith, it is impossible to love God. And without love for God, love for others is not salutary.

In the passage, St. Paul is addressing Christians who had come to believe that their use of miraculous gifts made them more important than others. In both letters to the Corinthian church, St. Paul criticizes these men who call themselves "super-apostles." St. Paul is encouraging the Corinthians (and other Christians, for that matter) not to start thinking that the various gifts given to them by the Holy Spirit in any way makes them more important than those who do not have the same types of gifts.

Nevertheless, Jesus himself specifically says that love for God is more important than love for other people. Why? Because it is only in a relationship with God is there any real hope. God's love is such that he will continue to love people who have no time for him and care nothing for him. However, in the end, he will not allow them to inherit his kingdom.

As C. S. Lewis once put it, there are those who say to God, "Thy will be done." These are those who will love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength. Then there are those to whom God says, "Thy will be done." In other words, "If you don't want anything to do with me in life, then I won't have anything to do with you in death."

Ephesians 2:8-9 make it very clear that, while love may higher, only God's love for us (grace) can save us, and the only way to receive it is through faith (i.e., trusting him). And even faith is a gift from him.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:21 am 
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Im christian and Im super religious, but I believe in letting people make there own desicions,forcing your religion down other peoples throats is in some ways disrespecting thier religeon thus dis-obeying the bible.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:04 am 
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i see. That's always been one of my favorite passages, and now I can say I understand it a whole lot better tha nI did. Props to Didy!!!! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Thanks. :)

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