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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:04 am 
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InterruptorJones wrote:
Douglas wrote:
Hey, Dids, I just want to say, that the author of Harry Potter is a self-proclaimed witch.


Um, I'm pretty sure you either made that up or are taking schoolyard rumors way too seriously.


Hey, if it is true, then being in the occult isn't all doom and gloom - like being guaranteed a personal fortune of £300million. Sweet cakes. :mrgreen:

Alas, that's just an urban legend, Douglas.

TOTP :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:47 am 
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The witchcraft portrayed in HP is not like real Wicca. It's more that sillified Halloween Bugs Bunny cartoon witchcraft.

Witch: *flies up to parapet* Hello!
BB: Goodbye! *hands her an anvil*
Witch: *falls* Good Grief!!
BB: Good riddance!

But back to "harmless Halloween pranks." I've talked to too many reliable people who have related to me encounters with dark forces through such things as seances and ouija boards, including my philosophy professor in college (Dr. Mark D. Linville, a very serious and rational man). So it may not be nearly as harmless as you think.

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1: ian, what r u tryin to say?
2: ive allready dabbled through the occult, and quite frankley, nothing has happend. i might have been not doing it right. so im gonna re-check and ask master puzuzu about this, as of now, im gonna change this threat titles to "Occult Magic" or somthing

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:08 am 
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Didymus wrote:
encounters with dark forces through such things as...ouija boards


i'm sorry but that is one of the funniest things i have heard in all my life. Thanks Didy for making my day.

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Choc-O-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
1: ian, what r u tryin to say?
2: ive allready dabbled through the occult, and quite frankley, nothing has happend. i might have been not doing it right. so im gonna re-check and ask master puzuzu about this, as of now, im gonna change this threat titles to "Occult Magic" or somthing

Something will happen. Those who are "wise" in the occult will lead "newbies" to believe that it's harmless, when really they're fooling you to go into darker & darker practices. Who cares if it's even "good" magic or whatnot? If you're a Christian, you follow God-and only him.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:13 am 
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Laugh if you want, pal. I'm not kidding here.

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Didymus wrote:
But back to "harmless Halloween pranks." I've talked to too many reliable people who have related to me encounters with dark forces through such things as seances and ouija boards, including my philosophy professor in college (Dr. Mark D. Linville, a very serious and rational man). So it may not be nearly as harmless as you think.


I can't say that there's no such thing as dark forces, because I don't know whether there are or not. Though there are people who just seem predisposed to reading evil occurances where no evil occurances have happened.

Like my ex-roommate, who was convinced Friday the 13th was an evil day - and she was an otherwise rational person. But on every Friday the 13th, she'd be a walking nervous wreck, her hands shaking, her thoughts away with the fairies. As a result, she'd drop things, lose things, fall over things and hurt herself, and she'd be distracted at work (which once got her fired). I couldn't accept her belief that it was because of Friday the 13th - it was because her belief occupied her mind and distracted her so much she was creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:25 am 
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But we're not talking about just a superstitious attitude toward a certain day of the month. We're talking about invocation of things beyond our understanding or control. Now I've never had any personal experience with it myself, but I know Dr. Linville very well. He is not a man given over to irrational superstition. If he tells me this happened, I have no reason to doubt him.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:26 am 
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What's her face wrote:
Like my ex-roommate, who was convinced Friday the 13th was an evil day - and she was an otherwise rational person. But on every Friday the 13th, she'd be a walking nervous wreck, her hands shaking, her thoughts away with the fairies. As a result, she'd drop things, lose things, fall over things and hurt herself, and she'd be distracted at work (which once got her fired). I couldn't accept her belief that it was because of Friday the 13th - it was because her belief occupied her mind and distracted her so much she was creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes my mother is like that on friday the 13th. Thinks she is tripping and losing things because its that day...tsk tsk.
toastpaint
If you're want to study evil go ahead. I guess the old saying is "to defeat your enemy you must think liek your enemy" or something to that effect. Just as long as you have a good grip on reality

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Didymus wrote:
But we're not talking about just a superstitious attitude toward a certain day of the month. We're talking about invocation of things beyond our understanding or control.


Yeah, but some may say that believing in witchcraft and seances and ouija boards is superstitious. It's just that I've seen what irrational fears and thoughts can do to an otherwise rational person, without any basis in reality.

EDIT: tut tut, The Poster Formerly Known As Dag_yo, your new sig is very mean - tut tut.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:39 am 
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You are right. But my point is that if a typically rational person describes what appears to be an irrational experience, then you have two choices: (1) to doubt the person's credibility, or (2) to reason in the possibility of the experience. My experience of Dr. Linville is such that I cannot doubt his credibility. Therefore, logic dictates that his apparently irrational experience must have been real, regardless of what dag says.

And, dag, there is a huge gap between reasonable conversation and mockery.

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Didymus wrote:
My experience of Dr. Linville is such that I cannot doubt his credibility. Therefore, logic dictates that his apparently irrational experience must have been real, regardless of what dag says.


I know where you're coming from, but sometimes even the most impeccibly credible person in the world can be prone to the occasional lapse. Though of course, I wasn't there when Dr Linville saw what he said he'd seen, so I'm not going to say that it didn't happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:47 am 
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Understandable. If it had been IJ, I'd have figured he had a few too many Margaritas. :p (just kidding, IJ).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:53 am 
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ive been studying all the stuff on Master Puzuzu's website, (http://www.Spellsandmagic.com), and frankly this stuff is great, and its put so you can understand it, and he says that the kind he is doing or putting on that site is good, and ive studdied up on the names of the saints, and sacred names of god, and they appear to be all true. also: the stereotype for someone who does real magic is a goth. usually goths in upstate newyork or california, but usually the missunderstood do it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:06 am 
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You might want to take a hint from Martin Luther on this one:

Martin Luther wrote:
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, and so we should not use his name to curse, swear, practice magic, lie or deceive, but in every time of need call upon him, pray to him, praise him and give him thanks.


I'm not really concerned with what Master Puzuzu says is good. The true and living God that I serve, the one who was crucified and raised from the dead, says otherwise.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:08 am 
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It doesn't matter if it's "good" or not, choco. Between all the translations of Exodus 20:3, God doesn't want you to worship anyone else but Him or practice anything but His teaching.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:56 am 
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you guys got all of it wrong, god gave the powers and the will and the power to create things under him using an unknown force to King Solomon, i studdy under his teachings, but use master puzuzu's methods. and im not worshiping another god, i am worshiping THE GOD, THE ONE AND ONLY GOD.
By the way, if your saying that god died on a cross and came back to life, your wrong, that was jesus, Gods son.

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 Post subject: Even I know that.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:00 am 
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Choc-O-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
By the way, if your saying that god died on a cross and came back to life, your wrong, that was jesus, Gods son.

:rolleyes: Jesus was God incarnated in the form of his creations.

He was a human God.

[size=0]I think.[/size]

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extremejon09 wrote:
I see you haven't played Twilight Princess. Why is that?

I got to the water dungeon thing and got bored.

WOW. You just lost the very little respect I had left for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:14 am 
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Choco:

Dude, I've studied the New Testament in the original Greek. Trust me: Jesus made SEVERAL claims to be the one true God. Every time he said, εγω ειμι ("I am"), he was claiming to be God. When he walked upon the Sea of Galilee, he was claiming to be God. When he said that he would separate his sheep from his goats, he was claiming to be God (to separate sheep like this is only for Adonai YHWH to do - Ezekiel 34:20). And not just any god, but the One True God, YHWH, or "I Am" from the Old Testament. When Jesus claims to be "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end," he is claiming to be God. The Lamb of Revelation, who makes war against the enemies of God, is called Lord Almighty, a clear reference to the One True God.

The Scriptures tell us that any spirit that does not proclaim Jesus is Lord (i.e., YHWH) in the flesh, such a spirit is not from God. I do not know who this Puzuzu is, but if he tells you that Jesus is not God, he is deceiving you.

And yes, it was God who died on the Cross and rose again from the dead. It was to him that St. Thomas Didymus said, "My Lord and my God." And with him I stand.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:28 am 
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no, man, jesus was sent down by the heavenly father and was accepted for birth by the Virgin Mary, who accepted him, she could have said No to god about the imaculant birth of Jesus Christ, but she allowed it, and thus jesus christ was born, several years later, jesus was crucified under pontius pilate, and was placed in a tomb covered by a large boulder. then, three days later, jesus arose from the dead, coming back from hell, and showed that he was king of the jews.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:32 am 
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Choco: Have you heard of the Trinity? God, Jesus, & the Holy Spirit are all one.
John 21:7 wrote:
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the LORD!"

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 Post subject: Duhhhh.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:34 am 
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Choc-O-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
no, man, jesus was sent down by the heavenly father and was accepted for birth by the Virgin Mary, who accepted him, she could have said No to god about the imaculant birth of Jesus Christ, but she allowed it, and thus jesus christ was born, several years later, jesus was crucified under pontius pilate, and was placed in a tomb covered by a large boulder. then, three days later, jesus arose from the dead, coming back from hell, and showed that he was king of the jews.

Um... and what was your point in that? Jesus is God. He is God in the flesh. God was king of the Jews.

Don't argue with Didymus over religion. It'll hurt.

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extremejon09 wrote:
I see you haven't played Twilight Princess. Why is that?

I got to the water dungeon thing and got bored.

WOW. You just lost the very little respect I had left for you.


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Didymus wrote:
I do not know who this Puzuzu is


He's that gargoyle from that one Futurama episode. (I'm joking, sort of.)

Anyway, I have one thing to say about this whole thing. Don't mess with it. It's quite dangerous.

Hmm...Jesus is not God, you say? Well, you said you were a Catholic. You do realize that that directly contradicts one of the key teachings of your faith, right? You know, that whole thing about the Trinity?

And yes, that whole thing about J.K. Rowling is a load of bull honkey. There's nothing dangerous about Harry Potter as long as you know that it's not real. (And if you don't, there's clearly something very wrong with you.)

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Choco:

I am a Christian minister. I have studied the Bible academically for over 10 years of my life, and before that I studied it on my own as a layman. I have studied Koine Greek and Masoritic Hebrew so that I can study the Scriptures in the original languages. Not only that, but after all these years, I know the God whom I serve. I know what I'm talking about. What you say about Jesus being born of Mary is true, but that does not at all mean he was not God. Do you not know the words of the Nicene Creed, "God of God, Light of Light, True God of True God, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made"?

St. John wrote:
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (20:26-29)

Notice here how Jesus accepts his worship.

St. Paul says of Jesus:
Quote:
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy (Colossians 1:16-18).

And:
Quote:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

And:
Quote:
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:5-8).


St. John wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only (John 1:1, 14)


I could continue. The testimony of Jesus being God is all over the Bible.

And you would be wise to learn the lesson of Simon the Sorceror from Acts Chapter 8. Simon the Sorceror thought that he could manipulate the power of God for his own financial gain. St. Peter confronted him and cursed him for his wickedness. Now, at least from the text, it appears that Simon repented of his witchcraft, but we do not know for certain. What is clear is that God the Holy Spirit will not allow people to manipulate him through sorcery. If this man Puzuzu tells you you can manipulate God, he is lying to you. I urge you, do not listen to this sorceror. Listen instead to the holy apostles who tell you, "For there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

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Choc-O-Lardiac Arrest & me on Yahoo IM wrote:
djgecko27: So what's all this I hear about you & this Master Puzuzu guy?

strongbad20212000: ahh, im just studying the Occult, and im trying to prove that magic was given to King Solomon by god, and wrote scriptures about it, and was made into a book in 1923 called "The Key Of Solomon, the king"

djgecko27: o...k...

djgecko27: Magic? That comes from Satan

djgecko27: Don't believe anything in the Occult

strongbad20212000: no, magic was first given to king solomon, you say that king solomon was an evil man and went to hell because he studdied magic? no, magic was given to him by god, the lord of heaven and the earth, you search google for "Meaning Of a Pentegram"

djgecko27: God gave WISDOM to Solomon, dude

strongbad20212000: yes, and solomon distributed it in his scriptures witch has been translated into a book

djgecko27: Why wouldn't this magic have been in the Bible?

strongbad20212000: yes, but others benefited from his wisdom, what he wrote in his scriptures

strongbad20212000: because, the people who wrote the bible didnt belive in any of this, and belived that satan had givin gods powers to solomon

djgecko27: Why are you even believing occult writings anyway? All you wanted to do was "study the religiouse [sic] aspects of good and evil"

strongbad20212000: i know, but now its to where i have to defend the occult, and all types of magic

djgecko27: Satan doesn't give God's powers to anyone. Besides, who are these "people who wrote the Bible"?

djgecko27: It is the Word of God. So you're defending the Occult & going against God's Word now? So much for just studying it.

strongbad20212000: im not going against gods word, i am saying that the occult, nay, all types of magic has been missunderstood

djgecko27: You are, because any form of magic is against God

strongbad20212000: man, your a good debator, now this is the kind of talking i wanted to get into when i joind Hr forums

djgecko27: "No other gods, only me." Exodus 20:3 (The Message)

djgecko27: Then you should have brought it up

strongbad20212000: i did, by bringing it up, you and me have gotten into a heated debate

djgecko27: on the forum, I meant

strongbad20212000: well, i tried with that "Harry Potter Debate" thing

strongbad20212000: but that backfired, but it seems like this is going good at the debating part

djgecko27: The whole Harry Potter thing came from a fake article in a satire newspaper called The Onion

strongbad20212000: i know

djgecko27: It's all made up.

strongbad20212000: but alot of catholics and christians belived it because theybelive anything said by a preist, and if one priest said "This book is evil because it deals with magic, and magic is evil"

djgecko27: If The Onion's parody has demonstrated anything, it's that we should be worrying about adults not being able to distinguish between fiction and reality. The kids themselves seem to have a pretty good grasp of it.

strongbad20212000: exactally my point

djgecko27: well, your point wasn't clear in the Occult thread

strongbad20212000: i know, i wanted a debate, a really heated one like the one were having now

djgecko27: & it was shot down quickly

strongbad20212000: the occult thread? yeah, i know, but theres gonna be some debate for a while, or at least another week

djgecko27: But you're clearly losing

strongbad20212000: i know, but eitherway, i love a debate

djgecko27: You've clearly gone from intending to study the religious aspect of evil to defending it.

strongbad20212000: ive been studying the occult for a while

djgecko27: sad

strongbad20212000: not really, i just want to understand it

djgecko27: "strongbad20212000: i know, but now its to where i have to deffend the occult, and all types of magic"

djgecko27: I should post all this on the Occult thread

strongbad20212000: i am deffending it from christians who think its evil, but i am talking about defending things like kabalah, VooDoo, and paganism

djgecko27: They're all essentially evil because they're against God

strongbad20212000: go ahead, thats what i was hoping u do

djgecko27: Then everyone will see how wrong you are

djgecko27: So it's best to see the error of your ways (finally) & study the occult from a more neutral point of view, which you probably intended to do in the first place

strongbad20212000: thats what i have been doing, but i have chosen to defend magic and everything about it because most of it is not evil

strongbad20212000: but belive what you want, your entitled to your opinion

djgecko27: It doesn't seem evil, but worshipping something else besides God is evil

strongbad20212000: i am not worshiping somthing else, all this stuff is done under gods will

strongbad20212000: i am worshiping god,

djgecko27: Magic is not from God. You're worshipping God but defending evil--that's being a hypocrite, my friend. Face it.

strongbad20212000: my friend, i am defending evil because i am entitled to my right to defend anything i want, if somthing seems wrong in the world, i try to change it, i want people to think that magic is not evil, but a neutral party

djgecko27: How can you "Defend" evil yet worship God?

strongbad20212000: if i wanted to, id defend gay people if i wanted to

djgecko27: "Disaster will come upon you,
and you will not know how to conjure it away.
A calamity will fall upon you
that you cannot ward off with a ransom;
a catastrophe you cannot foresee
will suddenly come upon you.
Keep on, then, with your magic spells
and with your many sorceries,
which you have labored at since childhood.
Perhaps you will succeed,
perhaps you will cause terror.
All the counsel you have received has only worn you out!
Let your astrologers come forward,
those stargazers who make predictions month by month,
let them save you from what is coming upon you.-"Isaiah 47:11-13

strongbad20212000: evil as in magic, i am defending magic, to u it seems evil, but u dont know anything about the accult, i suggest you actually study magic for a little while, so you can see where im coming from

djgecko27: It IS evil!

djgecko27: "Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw."-Acts 8:9-13

djgecko27: " But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8

strongbad20212000: you win........., ill stop, your a better christian/catholic than me

djgecko27: I'm a Protestant

strongbad20212000: if ur still in school, you should join the debate team

djgecko27: I'm fine with theatre, thanks

strongbad20212000: im in theatre, im the best at my school, ya know

djgecko27: Sure

strongbad20212000: im serious, i did fiddler on the roof, hey, i g2sg, you put up a good debate


*bows*

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:24 am 
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O_o

That conversation just erased whatever credibility he may have had.

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About the wisdom of Solomon. The Scriptures clearly teach that it was political (people skills), scientific (he was a great biologist), and literary (he was an extremely prolific writer). There is nothing anywhere in Scripture that says his wisdom was anything resembling magic. I know nothing of this book published in 1923, and considering my education in biblical scholarship, if it was of any credibility, I would have heard about it. If you wish to seek the wisdom of Solomon, seek it in the pages of Sacred Scripture, in Kings, Chronicles, the Psalms, and the Proverbs.

In the words of Yakko Warner, Good Night Everybody!"

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:20 am 
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http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/kos/
there, thats the exact text translated from the Key Of Solomon, the King. u guys dont seem to see where im coming from, didymus, i also belive that you should just study this, to see what exactly all types of magic are. as for the rest of you, i leave with this word that will help everyone of you in your lives,
Quote:
Disscover what you love to do, and Do it.
-The Meaning of Life, Bradley Trevor Greive

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:39 pm 
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Choco, I have reason to believe that this Key of Solomon is not authentic, but is the creation of Kabbalists in the 13th century AD. Kabbalism is essentially an attempt to use Hebrew writings to justify a form of sorcery that is clearly not taught by Scripture.

But as for Kabbalism, you might want to learn a lesson from the legend of the Golem. According to the accounts, a Hebrew wizard, a Kabbalist, created a creature called a Golem in order to defend himself and his friends against persecution. The creature went berserk and killed the man. Other accounts say that the creature killed the man's friends, and that the man ended up having to sacrifice himself to stop it. Either way, it was beyond his control, and the man ended up dying trying to stop it. The lesson? Don't go tampering with such powers unless you're willing to pay the ultimate price.

Choco, I reiterate my point: I have good reason to believe this Key of Solomon is not authentic. I am a Bible scholar; I know what I'm talking about here. And even if there were some real power behind it, that's just more reason not to mess with it.

Look, there are three accounts in the Book of Acts of encounters between the Apostles and sorcerors. In the first (Acts 8), Simon Magus was cursed by St. Peter for trying to manipulate the Holy Spirit (to Simon's credit, he did recognize his mistake, and we do not know what happened to him afterward). In the second, a sorceror calling himself Bar-Jesus (ironic name, huh?) attempted to curse St. Paul. St. Paul struck him blind. In the third, a witch attempted to curse St. Paul, and St. Paul caused her to lose her powers. The lesson learned? That the name of Jesus is more powerful than any magic available.

Are you baptized? If so, it might not even be possible for you to do magic anymore. I do not know. But one thing I do know for sure is this: you'd be far better off not bothering with magic of any sort, and instead relying upon the only One whose name is more powerful than any magic. For, "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11).

As for discovering what I love and doing it, I already have. It is this. My passion is to proclaim the Word of God. And I do it for a living.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:37 pm 
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Choco/MHguy, isn't it possible that because of Solomon's great wisdom, and his influence and other "magical" things he seemed to be able to do, that some people have thought he was performing magic, when he really actually wasn't? People have thought stranger things throughout history: I think of the amazing violinist (who's name escapes me) several centuries back, that was so good that people assumed he was in league with the devil.

To dag_yo/whatever your name is now: My best friend and I used to play with ouija boards when we were kids, but after hearing the story of one of my other dear friends from childhood (who is a minister's daughter) who had a terrible experience with a ouija board, I haven't touched them since. She was using it alone, and the board repeatedly spelled out "I'm coming". She said she was overcome by an evil prescence, threw the board across the room, and never went back to that place she'd been using it in. EVER. Nor did she ever use a ouija board again.

Dag, you have a right to disagree with Didymus, but your signature is in VERY poor taste, and even though I'm not a Mod/Admin, I would suggest you change it, if you want us to take you seriously. Heck, quote something you disagree with that I've said, I don't care. Just leave an intelligent man who has far more knowledge of these things than you or I ever will out of it.

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