Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Here's a question for you. Stem Cell research, good or bad?


I'm a republican, so, with that said, I'm guessing you probably think you know how I stand on this.... bet you're wrong..



Here's my stance.
I don't know why President Bush is against using unimplanted embryos, left over from fertility treatments, and slated for destruction, as a source of stem cells for research. I do understand that most in my party don't want to destroy life. I have no problem with that. But, in this case, if the embryos are going to be thrown away, anyway, isn't is better to get some good out of them? I think that NOT doing something with these embryos is a bigger waste of llife.

what do you think?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

If someone wanted to dig up your mother's grave and use her body for scientific research, would you be okay with that?

Using unborn children for scientific research is just part of the general trend for dehumanizing the unborn and depriving them of their human dignity. We have already deprived them of their right to live, do we have to rob them of their humanity as well?

Besides, the current law does allow for stem cell research on lines that have already been harvested. It's not like stem cell research has been completely outlawed or anything. It's still happening.

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Actually, my mother has it set up in her will that her body will be donated to science, so I really can't answer that.



I do agree that we have deprived the unborn of their right to live. People view ending a child's life as a "choice", while they view ending the life of someone who rapes, stabs and burns someone to death as "cruel and unusual punishment". My point is just that I don't like simply disposing the embryos that aren't implanted . There should be some good to come from them. I don't look at this as robbing them of their humanity as I see it not wasting life.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Understandable.

Your mother is a different story. She willingly donated her body to scientific research. Embryos aren't given that choice.

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very true. But, then again, the embryos aren't given the choice as to whether or not they want to be thrown away, as a waste of life.

I really wish some people besides me and you would chime in on this. Joeyday, Interruptor Jones, Agentseethroo, somebody!?!?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Yes, and I would be there with a shovel to help.

Since we are speaking hypothetically, let's just say that the research done on my mother helped treat a myriad of diseases, conditions, and disabilities including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis, which is what stem cell research offers the possibility of.

Isn't she great?

That the embryos are going to be destroyed either way tells me that stem cell research is the way to go. It reminds me of when they banned cockfighting around here -- they killed all the birds that would have been combatants. Huh?

Don't really understand how it's that absurd, considering that it's a big election issue to some people.
IJ probably didn't seem to sound like a jerk there. Read the War on Terror thread.. I appreciate IJ's civility, although I disagree with their arguments.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I see your point, kef. They should have made soup out of them instead. They would have been too gamey to make good fryers.

I mean THE CHICKENS.

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I appreciate the sentiment, StrongRad, but I'm not the topic of discussion here, nor are my beliefs. It was a mistake for me to post in the first place. Carry on, please.

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And thank you IJ.

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mmmmm.... chicken...

I like the idea of continuing research on existing lines. I, admittingly, don't understand a lot about this, I'm an atmospheric scientist, not a biologist. (Jim, I'm a weatherman, not a doctor!) Are the existing lines replenishable, or are they limited? Meaning, can they make more from what they have, or do they need more?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Seeing as it could potentially help with Scerlosing Cholangitis and Ulcerative Colitis, I am all for it.

The way I understand it, the problem comes from where the cells are harvested. Currently aborted fetus's serve as one of the primary sources, right?

So then this isn't actually a debate over medicine and science (unless you are someone who doesn't believe in anything other then natural healing), but rather a debate about abortion.

And I am not sure where I stand on that issue (or whether this is the time or place to start)

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I don't see it as an abortion issue when the stem cells come from embryos created but not implanted. Actually, when it comes from aborted fetuses (fetusi?), I still don't see it as an abortion issue. Maybe because I don't want to touch that subject, or maybe cus the fetus is already dead... I dunno.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

As far as stem cell lines go, we've got a certain, rather sharply limited number. I don't particularly want to look it up. Of this number, up to a third of the existing lines are unusable do to genetic complications - others died shortly afterwards. Stem cells cannot generally reproduce limitlessly without reprecussions, not even the very freeform stem cells of an embryo. The actual number of usable lines has been estimated (note that this is a low) to be fewer than ten.

So regardless of your beliefs on the ethical ramifications of stem cell research and/or the use of unusable embryos to further research, the stem cell lines cannot be easily regenerated, are very fragile and carefully controlled, and are for the most part being shunted from laboratory to laboratory as each scientist attempts to get as much data as possible from the miniscule time allotted him or her. So even if all the lines were available, usable, and regeneratable, little to no constructive research could be done on them in the current, urgent climate.

I hope you find this helpful.

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<joeyday> So it's you, Jesters, Firebird, and Agent9.
<joeyday> Five is...
<joeyday> pcp08128402pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net
<Tom39> Jweb.
<Jweb_Guru> I feel strangely honored.

I'd like to think that the climate wouldn't be so urgent if the lines were regenerable.

Thanks for the help, though. I need to brush up on this. I like to learn about stuff I don't know, so this would be a good topic when I end my current readings on VSL theory.

I think that the public in general, needs to be better informed on all of this. That way we don't have to make up our minds based on the info that is out there, info that is REALLY slanted one way or another.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I think that some of the more down to Earth peoples think about the potenal of that one egg,I mean the possibilites are endless Nobel winning scientist,or sports hero,or just some guy that would have screwed his life up anyway. And then there's the "Eggs are living Beings" and killing them might not be considered murder not in the eyes of the general public but in the eyes of God and therefore if the roof fell in on you you would be going stright to hell. And some of the stranger theorys I've heard is that if we become dependent on stem cells then there will be Matrix like human farms, personally that gives me the jibblies and I pray to God that it never comes to that.

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RIP Nathan "Buz" Buzdor

Let's say that egg could save the lives of countless generations of future Nobel laureates. Or even just regular people's lives. And not just save their life, but make it one where they could be free from a myriad of diseases, conditions, and disabilities.

Isn't that potential as well?

Sure, eggs aren't living beings, just like chicken eggs (have any mayonnaise lately?) and cows (mmm, steakses). But it's a fact vegans are a tiny, tiny minority of people against stem cell research.

The reason that people get worked up about stem cell research is that it's human stem cell research, and many people believe that humans are special among animals, and that using a human cell to save a life is an abomination while using twenty pounds of turkey cells is Thanksgiving dinner.



Well, the Matrix reference isn't quite valid because these "human farms" wouldn't contain living humans in anything but the vegetable sense. And there wouldn't be merciless robots flying. Not that it still wouldn't give me the jibblies. This is really a different field entirely, but if the "human farm" became a reality it would rather be a "body part farm". There's no use in raising brains (yet), or appendices, or fingers, but if we could grow hearts and kidneys it would save thousands of lives every year.

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I think that the idea of human farms is something concocted by those who are against stem cell research. It's a pretty good way to turn people against an idea; take the underlying idea (in this case, maybe fixing genetic defects) and warp it with paranoid conspiracy theory into something completely different and scary (like the human fields in the Matrix).

Trust me, I'm in the NRA, we do this all the time (if they take our right to carry assault rifles, then they'll take our right to carry all guns, then they'll get drunk with power and take away all our rights.)

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Then they'll take away your right to fresh underwear!

Today, your gun cabinet...Tomorrow, the WORLD!

And then the terrorists win!

"I do not even own a gun let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack."

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We just added that one in the past few years, we kicked around some other ideas like, "if they don't sell to us, they sell to terrorists", but we decided terrorists win was better.
I'm waiting on the anti-stem cell people to add it to their human farms thing... Maybe human farms that will be used for terror training?

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Most excellent use of a quote.

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Party on, IJ....

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Warning! A short off topic not from the Prof.:The machenes in the Matrix live on the bio-electric feald that humans naturaly give off,before they worked on solar batteries and then the humans blocked out the sun by attacking 01(the robotic country).

Now that that's over I can say that even the parts of humans growing in jars would give me the jibblies,not that I wouldn't accept one if it was going to save my life.

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RIP Nathan "Buz" Buzdor

Two things:

1. There's not anybody in the world that does not know this. Even blind, deaf African bushmen know the salient plot points of The Matrix.
2. It is not pertinent to this discussion nor does it have any impact on any point made previously, including those concerning The Matrix which were asides to begin with.

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With all the Altzheimer's, Parkinsons, and other crap out there, I really think that, if the possibility exists to cure them, we need to try. I don't want to steer this towards "playing God", but with this topic, it's almost inevitable. If God really didn't want us to cure these things, we won't.

I don't know how it got to "body parts in jars" but that's not what I think of when I think of stem cells. I think of cloning when I hear that... and that's a different can of worms that I don't wanna open.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

My opinion about stem cell research might change within the next year or so. Next month, I start another chaplain residency at a nursing home, and I know I will encounter Alzheimer's patients there.

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I agree, considering my Grandpa had Alzheimer's, which is genetic, which means I may have it. I don't really want to have it.