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Oooo, don't know what to feel about this.

Talks are taking place this week to let Turkey join the European Union. While most European governments are in favour of letting Turkey in, one in three citizens are opposed. These are the main reasons that I've heard thrown around, and that I'm worried about myself......

Turkey's denial of the Armenian Holocaust, where 1.5 million Armenians were killed in 2 years by Turkish hands. Now, this happened 90 years ago, and it's not the fact that the Holocaust happened that makes me edgy. It's the fact that there is still very deep denial about it in the country - and of course no apology to the Armenian people. A Turkish novelist is going on trial in December for talking about it, and a group of scholors were denied the right to discuss it this summer. I'm not sure this is a mindset that I'd want influencing European policy.

Turkey's human rights issues. Critics of recent governments' actions have faced intimidation, imprisonment and torture. And any reforms are criticised as being uneven, and brutality in police custody is still a problem. Amnesty International will tell you more....

Most Europeans are also worried about opening the immigration floodgates to a poor - and Muslim - country.

And people are worried about Islamic fundementalism taking hold in Europe. Some argue that letting a Muslim country in may even blur what Europe is, culturally.

HOWEVER.....

While reforms are uneven, at least they're happening, and it's because of Turkey's hopes to join. Especially in terms of policing, more rights to women, and complying with the European Charter for Human Rights. They might even pay attention to the European Parlaiment's call last week to acknowledge the Armenian Holocaust, who knows.

And there's no doubt that the rest of Europe will need them. They've got a predominantly young population that's increasing fast. The rest of Europe aren't producing enough children to look after us when we're old, so we'll be relying on Turkish nurses and caregivers.

And when it comes to fundementalism, us Europeans are far from perfect. Like the British MEP Daniel Hannan said, about other MEPs (Members of the European Parlaiment):



There's little doubting that many of us in Europe have yet to learn the lessons of our own history.

And as regards the argument that native European cultures will be swamped - well, I've worked in cultural development, and from what I see Europeans are doing a good job letting their heritages go to rot on their own.

But I still don't know. If Turkey were to join the EU, they can go back on their reforms at any moment. And the taboo surrounding the Armenian Holocaust needs to be addressed. And like Hannan said, European governance has enough problems of it own than to let more in.

What do you guys think?

These points bother me. I figured that western society as a whole has improved about how they handle racism and religion, but if these two points are serious issues in Turkey becoming a part of the European Union, then perhaps I was wrong.

However, I would certainly agree with the rest of Europe for acknowledgement about the Armenian Holocaust. Why can't they be like Germany and just admit "yeah, we screwed up, bad" and get on with it? It's not like the Armenian Holocaust is an event that next to nobody knows about. Civil Rights issues is another good point.

At this stage, I would agree on the points that Turkey needs to shape up a bit. But once they acknowledge the holocaust and clean up their act a bit, I see no reason why they couldn't join the EU.

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This is the way I see it:

Part of Turkey is in Europe. Therefore they should be allowed to join the European Union. True, they aren't exactly the nicest country, but remember that no one people has a monopoly on cruelty. Most of Europe isn't completely absolved of nastiness either.

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"They've taken Mr Rimmer! Sir, they've taken Mr Rimmer!"
"Quick, let's get outta here before they bring him back!"

Oh well, they're not serious points as far as the official talks are concerned. But some people are worried that letting a Muslim country in may change what Europe is. Austria especially has a big problem with Turkey - because of the beef they had with them dating back to the Crusades. No joking - talk about your historical hang-ups.

Though I wonder, how would other secular/Christian regions - like America or Australia - feel about sharing power with a Muslim country? Can't see that it'll be much different.



Definately. There's a serious problem with that kind of collective denial. Though some are saying that they'll become more "civilised" by admitting thier invovlement - I personally hate that word. I'd say they'll just become more mature as a nation.



I agree and disagree. I agree because plenty of European countries (namely Britain, France, Germany and Belgium) have committed atrocrities themselves, both at home and globally. Though I disagree because those countries' citizens are free to talk about their countries' mistakes. And so, more importantly, they learn from them.

I concur, though I have always wanted this infamous country to try to get a better reputation through the EU

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BLUE SOCK!!! BLUE SOCK!!!

the country is well known for rebeling against europe for centuryies it is kinda odd to see the turkish want to be part of europe.

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die spelling nazis!

It certainly is, Khan. The Austrians are dead against Turkey joining because of those old rivelries. Oddly, not very much is coming out of Greece, I thought they would be most opposed, because they more beef than anyone with the Turks. But from the Turks' point of view, they're going for the prize and not too bothered about the past. As we've seen as regards the Armenian Holocaust issue.

You are forgetting the Greeks, the Greeks dispise the Turks the most.

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are the greeks still angery about the turks taking over constantinople?

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die spelling nazis!

I did mentioned them, and how wierd it was that they've not said much about Turkey joining. Though I might dig around to see what's going on in the debate now.



I've heard mutterings alright. Mostly from an old co-worker of mine from Crete, who used very colourful language to describe the Turks, and had a very.... uhhh.... creative take on history. I played the TMBG song "Constantinople/Istanbul" in the office one day - and when he twigged what it was about...... oh, the hilarity!

its kinda how some southerners are still angry about the out come of the american civil war( but with the people from crete it was 500 year ago, unlike the civil war). not to be much of topic bat tmbg wrote that song, I didnt know that they were around since the early 90s

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die spelling nazis!