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Does the Bible contradict itself?
Yes. 30%  30%  [ 15 ]
No. 26%  26%  [ 13 ]
Only if you take it literally. 44%  44%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 50
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:26 am 
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Question:
Most Christians believe that there was no apostasy in the original Church of Christ, right? If this is true, then what happened to prophets? Why would we not have more of them today?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:30 am 
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In my own opinion, there have been plenty of periods of apostasy in the church (just prior to 1517, for example). But there is always a remnant, those who work to challenge and restore. Martin Luther, for one.

But if you wish to know why we no longer see the kind of prophets like those who wrote the Scriptures, perhaps this passage can shed some light:
Quote:
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world (Hebrews 1:1-2).

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:34 am 
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Do you believe that prophets of God could arise today and give counsel to the believers and cry repentance like they did in the Old and New Testament? For example: Moses, Abraham, Elijah, Jonah, Micah, or any of them. Even the apostles of Christ.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:37 am 
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Perhaps they could, but if one claims to be such, I will test him by the Scriptures to see if he is true.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:40 am 
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What are your thoughts on Amos 3:7?

(Sorry for all the questions. I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, in case it's coming across that way. I'm truly curious.)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:10 am 
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I don't really know. It might be that, during the time he was speaking to Amos, he was simply making clear that his message had been given to his prophets (keep in mind, it was nearly 400 years between the last OT prophet and the coming of John the Baptist). It might be that, now that Christ has come, he can now speak to us directly through the Holy Spirit on account of the Son. It might also be that, since his plan for mankind's redemption has already been carried out, there is no pressing need for any new message. It could be that prophets are all around us and we don't even know it. It may be that the true prophets are those who do not call attention to themselves, but do as the apostles did, and point to Christ (2 Cor 4:5). Or it may be that the true prophets are those who, like Luther, were called to challenge to Church to return to its biblical foundations during times that the Church has gone astray. As I said, I really don't know. All I do know is that, as Christians, we are to test those prophets to see if they truly are what they claim.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:03 am 
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Didymus wrote:
Perhaps they could, but if one claims to be such, I will test him by the Scriptures to see if he is true.


uh oh! watch out! Pop quiz in didy's class today!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:12 pm 
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Sorry to jump in here, but wasn't Mother Theresa considered a prophet of sorts? Or was she just really well versed in Scripture and an all around great person and saint?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:52 pm 
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I don't know that she was a prophetess. But certainly a great woman of faith.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:38 pm 
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This guy's funny!

Anyway, if god exists and is all-knowing, all-powerfull, and has a divine plan, then free will cannot exist. The future, our destinies, every little detail in our lives, would allready have been decided by him, and we'd simply be playing out the roles in his little toy universe.

In that case, you could say he's just doing it for fun. But what fun? Emotions arise when you obtain new information and react to it. If he's all-knowing he can't feel anything. (well, except for boredom) Imagine you've watched a move 50,000 times and know every little detail in the movie. Could any part of the movie possibly scare you, make you laugh, make you cry, etc? I think not. If god is all-knowing, his life would be very dull indeed.

Would god concider killing himself to end the boredom? Could he? If he's all-powerfull, he should be able to. But if he's immortal, he should not be able to... could he be both all-powerfull and immortal? It would seem to me, those attributes are incompatitible. Also, could god have free will himself, if he allready knows what he is going to do?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Duke, I would really appreciate it if you would not post videos that made fun of my beliefs.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:13 am 
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Duke, these are all very interesting questions. They contain a lot of empty speculation about God's motives, of which none of us are in any place to make, but interesting questions none the less.

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Anyway, if god exists and is all-knowing, all-powerfull, and has a divine plan, then free will cannot exist. The future, our destinies, every little detail in our lives, would allready have been decided by him, and we'd simply be playing out the roles in his little toy universe.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure how much of what we believe to be free will is actually his work. But there is a faulty assumption in your thinking: you jump from the whole idea that our fates are already foreseen to the conclusion that he is the one who set that course. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but the conclusion does not connect to the premise very well.

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Imagine you've watched a move 50,000 times and know every little detail in the movie. Could any part of the movie possibly scare you, make you laugh, make you cry, etc?

Actually, I don't know how many times I've seen The Holy Grail, but it makes me laugh every single time.

Quote:
I think not. If god is all-knowing, his life would be very dull indeed.

An interesting assumption on your part, and one easily disproved. Human beings get bored because they feel incomplete. Think about it: when you feel bored, isn't it because you are longing for something to take up some empty space inside you? I do not think God gets bored because, in his essence, he is already complete; there are no empty places within him for him to try to fill.

Quote:
Would god concider killing himself to end the boredom? Could he? If he's all-powerfull, he should be able to. But if he's immortal, he should not be able to... could he be both all-powerfull and immortal? It would seem to me, those attributes are incompatitible.

C. S. Lewis once put it this way (or as close as I can remember it, anyway): "Nonsense is nonsense. Putting 'God can' or 'God can't' in front of it does not make it any less nonsense." This postulation isn't terribly different from the one HHFOV posted a few pages back, about God creating a rock so big he can't move it. One could just as easily argue, based on the definition of God's perfection, that he must necessarily exist (See Ontological Argument). I have always found the Ontological Argument to be a rather vain speculation of word definitions, with no real substance, but then again, I've always felt the same about such arguments, similarly based on vain speculation of word definitions.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:11 am 
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Exhibit A wrote:
Duke, I would really appreciate it if you would not post videos that made fun of my beliefs.


Is religion above satire? I think Gervais is making a serious point about literal interpretation of the Bible. Like it or not, this is how religion, especially fundamentalism, comes across to a rational nonbeliever. Since it seems a stated aim of Christianity to convert as many people as possible you can only benefit from knowing what unbelievers think and why they think it.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Just kinda curious about the verse "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." I've read somewhere that this has been used as an argument against Christian pacifism.

Once I got my Selective Service card, I decided to become a pacifist, but after coming across that verse, now I'm unsure.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:15 pm 
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IantheGecko wrote:
Just kinda curious about the verse "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." I've read somewhere that this has been used as an argument against Christian pacifism.

Once I got my Selective Service card, I decided to become a pacifist, but after coming across that verse, now I'm unsure.
You should register, regardless of how you feel about that. As far as I'm concerned, if you're truly pacifist, registering doesn't put you in any more of a position to have to serve than you were before. Also, not registering has a lot of negatives.

I seriously doubt that there's going to be a draft anytime soon, anyway. Neither side is willing to commit political suicide by voting FOR a draft.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:15 pm 
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The passage is specifically in reference to taxes, but I suppose that, considering other passages of Scripture (particularly Romans 13), it can be understood that we, as citizens of earthly kingdoms, have responsibilities to live as good citizens and fulfill our obligations to them.

However, as regards Christians in military service, I'd suggest you examine Romans 13:4. Also, the Centurion whose servant was healed by Jesus, and the Centurion who confessed him the Son of God at his crucifixion. And Cornelius, the first Gentile Christian, who just happened to be a Roman soldier. This isn't to say that military service is mandated by Scripture - you have to examine whether that is your particular calling or not.

But for Selective Service: keep in mind, the only way a draft will be instituted is if the danger to our nation is grave enough to warrant every able-bodied man to serve. In such a case, I do believe it would be your duty to serve.

And who knows? They might even beef you up some!

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Didymus wrote:
But for Selective Service: keep in mind, the only way a draft will be instituted is if the danger to our nation is grave enough to warrant every able-bodied man to serve. In such a case, I do believe it would be your duty to serve.


Flat-footedness runs in my family.
My grandma won't be drafted. =o)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:28 pm 
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Awww. I hate to see a poor old lady deprived of the opportunity to run around in camouflage with a huge freaking machine gun.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
Awww. I hate to see a poor old lady deprived of the opportunity to run around in camouflage with a huge freaking machine gun.


yeah, she could go around infecting everyone with her cancerous leg and lower back.



...because...cancer is totally contagious.
It's like cooties!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:33 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
And who knows? They might even beef you up some!
You're right about that! :D

SR, I did register; my card's behind my school ID & my permit in the window pocket of my wallet. My brother's going into the Navy after we graduate, but his recruiter told him that the closest to Iraq he'd get would be Turkey. And my youth pastor, who was a Specialist in the Gulf War, said that we'd only have a draft if we went to China. So I feel a lot better. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:17 pm 
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DukeNuke wrote:

Would god concider killing himself to end the boredom? Could he? If he's all-powerfull, he should be able to. But if he's immortal, he should not be able to...


according to Christianity this is apparently exactly what he did.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:27 pm 
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:mrgreen: Not quite, Cobalt. There's a huge gap between this kind of emo suicide and an act of self-sacrifice.

(actually, I kinda wanted to go there in my response, but figured it would just confuse things).

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:46 pm 
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God can't get bored. Seriously. Boredom is a result of factors that god doesnt experience.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:36 am 
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In Acts 16, the author Luke joined Paul on his missionary journey. Then in verse 22, he writes that Paul & Silas were beaten & imprisoned. How did Luke manage to avoid this if he was with them?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:54 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
In Acts 16, the author Luke joined Paul on his missionary journey. Then in verse 22, he writes that Paul & Silas were beaten & imprisoned. How did Luke manage to avoid this if he was with them?


Luke lost his Visa check card the week before, so he had to pay for everything in cash. Him, Paul, and Silas were gonna go to the game, but he needed to get gas. He went in to buy a drink and have em put 10 on 5, but they were gone when he got back. Luckily, he grabbed some napkins while he was filling up his 32oz. diet coke. He wrote what happened on the napkin sand stuck it on the dash so he wouldn't lose it. He didn't wanna seem like an idiot for losing his visa check card, so he left that part out.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:04 am 
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XD

My guess is that, since Paul and Silas were the main speakers there, that they were the ones the mob targeted. Luke and the rest probably just kept a low profile and stayed out of the way. Or it could have happened while they were all separated in the city. I really don't know.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:23 pm 
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We were finishing up our Christianity unit in history, and I came across an interesting excerpt from the Bible

Corinthians 13-4 wrote:
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.


(I hope I cited that right)

If God loves us and love keeps no records of wrongs, then why do our sins keep us from Heaven?


Last edited by Ju Ju Master on Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:24 pm 
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In a nutshell, because those who sin without redemption don't love God.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:27 pm 
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But even so, God continues to love us, correct? He would not dwell on this lack of returned love.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:34 pm 
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He loves us, but He still keeps us accountable.
http://www.rbc.org/bible_study/answers_ ... 30875.aspx

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