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Does the Bible contradict itself?
Yes. 30%  30%  [ 15 ]
No. 26%  26%  [ 13 ]
Only if you take it literally. 44%  44%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 50
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:19 pm 
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IantheGecko wrote:
I know someone who says that the verse "Love your neighbor as yourself" means that it's OK to be gay, but that just doesn't sound right.



Well, I suppose if he has a crush on himself its fine to think that way. :P

TOTPD Image I was bored, and it beat studying :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:48 pm 
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IantheGecko wrote:
I know someone who says that the verse "Love your neighbor as yourself" means that it's OK to be gay, but that just doesn't sound right.

Definitely not. The love there is αγαπαω, and is not an erotic type of love. A better term might be "show compassion."

cyco wrote:
Ok, they already answered this, but I'm going to answer a question most people ask when they hear "God wants you to try to be perfect"

Most people say "if its impossible why even try?" Well, its sorta like a race. Lets say you are doing a time trial on a 500 meter track. You want a low time, right? Well, its humanly impossible to get to the end in no time at all, but its what you want to try for. Nobody drops out of a time trial because they cant finish in no time at all.

Actually, my point is that, since we cannot be perfect, we must rely entirely on Christ's perfection for us. Only his strength can get us over the finish line.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
cyco wrote:
Ok, they already answered this, but I'm going to answer a question most people ask when they hear "God wants you to try to be perfect"

Most people say "if its impossible why even try?" Well, its sorta like a race. Lets say you are doing a time trial on a 500 meter track. You want a low time, right? Well, its humanly impossible to get to the end in no time at all, but its what you want to try for. Nobody drops out of a time trial because they cant finish in no time at all.

Actually, my point is that, since we cannot be perfect, we must rely entirely on Christ's perfection for us. Only his strength can get us over the finish line.


Yeah, but some people dont know why we should even try to be perfect if we cant become it. God will still bring us to heaven if we mess up, but he wants us to try to be perfect, and thats what I was talking about. I agree with what you are getting at 100% though.

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Actually, from Heb 12, what he really wants is for us to keep our eyes on Christ Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith.

There's two reasons I'm bringing this up: First, theologically speaking, our perfection, sanctification, ability to live a Christian life, originates in the Trinity and is mediated to us through the Cross, the Scriptures, and the Sacraments anyway, and it is to these means of grace we must turn in our times of need.

The second is that perfectionism can, and often does, have devastating effects on people's mental and spiritual well-being. What we truly need is grace. Grace is simultaneously God's forgiveness to us when we fail, and his strength and courage to help us when we are weak. The problem with perfectionism is that it can, and often does, cause people to believe that they must be perfect under their own power, without the help of God; in fact, it becomes a barrier between them and God. I know, because I've been there.

So, on one hand, I can agree with you: to say that we can never achieve perfection is not an excuse for "cheap grace." On the other hand, the truth is that, under our own power, we can't; we need him at work in us in order to make it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:06 pm 
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What's Her Face wrote:
Here's one that's been bugging me for a while - concerning the wife of Seth (Adam and Eve's son).

So if Adam and Eve were the only two people created by God, and they only had three sons and no daughters, where did Seth's wife come from?

Hate to dredge this one back up, but there's an answer for this one that none of you even seemed to consider. That is:
Genesis is just a collection of creation myths. They're just stories with no basis in actual history. It's all just been made up by people living in prehistorical times, who passed it doen to their decendentas, who began to belive it was true, who integrated it into their religion. Later, someone wrote it down. Later still, some one took it literaly.

Meanwhile, Geologists were busy proving that rocks exist that are older than is possible if you go by the Genesis accounts and by the geneologies listed in the Bible. But hey, it's only science.

In short, there never was an actual "Adam" or "Eve", never mind "Cain", "Abel" "Noah" et al. They are just characters in a fiction, that's all.
That doesn't mean you have to stop beliving in God (if you belive in God). The story still contains the same message it did before I told you it's not literaly true. You just have to not take it literaly and look for the underlying meaning. Besides, the Bible is not a history text. It's a Religious/Moral/Ethical text. It instucts you on what to believe, how to worship, what is moraly and ethicly right and wrong, and so on. The fact that Genesis claims that human females were created from a rib from the first human male doesn't enter into it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:50 pm 
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I think the Garden of Eden DOES have a big part in the story of the Bible... (and there IS historhical evidence of the Flood, which is part of Genesis).

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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
I think the Garden of Eden DOES have a big part in the story of the Bible... (and there IS historhical evidence of the Flood, which is part of Genesis).

What are you talking about? There's no evidence for "the Flood" unless you cite The Bible as evidence, which would be circular logic. The "arcs" that were "discovered" turned out to be something other than arcs. One was just a shadow from an overhanging bit of ice, another was an intresting (but entierly natural) outcroping of rock, and another was a burial mound. Noboy's found an ancient boat that look like it could be Noah's arc.
There is geological evidence for several ancient deluges in the Mediteranian, Baltic and the Black Sea areas, but that by itself doesn't mean that a guy named Noah decided to load up a boat with a boatload of assorted animals and float around for a while. It's no more evidence for that than it is evidence that Giligan and the Skipper are stranded on a desert isle together with the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, the professor, and Mary Ann.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:24 pm 
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Could you please explain the global prescence of a strata of sedimentary rock, then? That would be helpful, Sarge, if you could.

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Capt. Ido Nos wrote:
Could you please explain the global prescence of a strata of sedimentary rock, then? That would be helpful, Sarge, if you could.

Well, you know, I'm not a geologist, but neither are you or you wouldn't be asking suck a ridiculous question.
Why ridiculous, you ask? Well, a quick trip to the Wikipedia would have told you that sedimentary rocks cover 75% of the Earth's surface, not the 100% you seem to think they do. That means that there's plenty of places where there ISN"T ANY! How do you explain that, then? God made it extra, extra dry there that day and ..whoooops.. no flood for that bit of land... just don't tell the writers of Genesis, then. Yep, 25% of the earth's surface isn't volcanoes, and we're not talking about the parts that are under oceans and seas. So, how do you explain this, except that your (aprarant, yet unspoken) theory that Sedimentary rock is evidence of a global flood is pure hogwash.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:15 pm 
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It's no more evidence for that than it is evidence that Giligan and the Skipper are stranded on a desert isle together with the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, the professor, and Mary Ann.
That's only assuming that the Bible has absolutely no historical accuracy and is totally made up. You might as well not believe anything before 1000 BC.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:00 pm 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
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It's no more evidence for that than it is evidence that Giligan and the Skipper are stranded on a desert isle together with the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, the professor, and Mary Ann.
That's only assuming that the Bible has absolutely no historical accuracy and is totally made up. You might as well not believe anything before 1000 BC.

No, that's assuming Genesis has absolutely no historical accuracy and is totally made up. The rest of the Old Testement bible is composed of various degree's of "made up" and "oral history" with most of the first five books of the Bible being made of the former.
The problem you're having lies in that the writers of Genesis were recording myths and legends that were so ancient that to them they must have seemed to be just as credible as the various oral histories that also wrote down. To them, it was all historical fact. That doesn't make it so, but to their subjective reality it was so.
I'm just trying to be objective and it's a shame you can't see that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:03 pm 
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Note the key word, "assuming." And considering the tone of your posts, I find it very hard that you actually are being as objective as you claim.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:22 pm 
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it's hard to stay objective on a topic like this for anyone. but still, even myths often have basis in fact. even if it wasn't literally a global flood there quite probably WAS a major flood that the story is based on. i mean, the places where the people who recorded the stories in the bible lived are located on floodplains.

overall though i think if you are focused on proving or disproving things rather than taking into consideration what moral messages it is sending (which is the real purpose behind the bible) you aren't grasping the intended picture.

i look at the bible as a teaching tool for how to live and not to live, not as an explanation for origins or what happens after i'm done living. sometimes it seems people are so caught up in defending or promoting their own religions they forget that it is important to LIVE too. life shouldn't be about getting ready for death in my opinion. even if death is eternity, and i'm stuck in limbo or worse, it would be a lot more bearable knowing i at least had a good life before i got there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:43 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
Note the key word, "assuming." And considering the tone of your posts, I find it very hard that you actually are being as objective as you claim.

This from a man who assumes the Biible is the divinely insipred Word of God and accepts whole swaths of it as doctrine as a matter of faith.
Yeah, you're one to talk about objectivity.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:19 pm 
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You know, Sarge, I'm getting sick of your attitude. Maybe if you actually tried talking WITH people instead of DOWN To them, maybe people might care more about what you say. As it is, you come on here and try to talk like an expert about things you have very little knowledge of, and expect people just to accept that you are "objective." My suggestion to you is to adopt a more respectful attitude toward the other posters on this thread, or quit posting here.

Toastpaint!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:05 am 
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Sarge wrote:
How do you explain that, then? God made it extra, extra dry there that day and ..whoooops.. no flood for that bit of land...

*snicker*
Ever hear of erosion? It has this annoying habit of making sedimentary rock go bye bye.

Of course, you're smarter than the stupid christians here, so I'm sure you already knew that.

I, too, am fed up with your smartass atitude. This thread is about bible questions, not "OMG U R DUMB U BELIEVE IN GOD AND I DON'T I'M TEH SMART!!!1ONEONE!"

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 Post subject: Is God Happy?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:58 am 
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I was thinking last night, is God happy? Think about it, he knows everything, so before he even does something, he already knows everything that will happen because of it. It seems mind-bendingly boring if you think aobut it. Not to mention people sin against him every day constantly, and he sent his own son to save us knowing we were going to kill him. I know he's not selfish or anyhting, but the question is: Is he happy?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:02 am 
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I couldn't think of a better question to toastpaint the bible FAQ thread.. No offense, but I'm gonna move this over there. It's what that thread sorely needs.

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maybe god is busy making other planets and has given up on earth ;P

nothing beats a fresh start with a clean slate, i always say.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:44 pm 
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Yeah, I was thinking: If one assumes the bible is truth (which I do) would it still be practical to believe in the possibility of life forms on other planets, even if they are not listed in Genesis?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:31 pm 
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HipHoppityFrogOfValue wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking: If one assumes the bible is truth (which I do) would it still be practical to believe in the possibility of life forms on other planets, even if they are not listed in Genesis?

It's possible. Leaving it doesn't mean anything, either, as our knowledge of life on other planets isn't really important to salvation.
Personally, I really don't think life exists on other planets (the "The Government is covering up the truth!1!! OMGAREA51ROSWELL!!!1!ONEONE!!" types have completely turned me off to the idea, but that's a whole other thread altogether).

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StrongRad wrote:
Personally, I really don't think life exists on other planets.
Tehn that makes it one big waste of space, doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Personally, I really don't think life exists on other planets.
Tehn that makes it one big waste of space, doesn't it?


No... We're actually meant to use it. We're just not... yet. :-)

I watched that whole movie to see the alien and IT WAS HER FATHER!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:58 pm 
I don't think there are other planets to support life.

Considering how delicate our own world is, it seems very unlikely.

But then again, you can never be quite certian.


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Out of the Silent Planet.

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Alexander wrote:
I don't think there are other planets to support life.

Considering how delicate our own world is, it seems very unlikely.

But then again, you can never be quite certian.

as Carl Sagan once said, even if there was a one in a billion chance of a planet sustaining life, with all the trillions of stars with orbiting bodies there should be millions of life sustaining planets.

the universe is so huge you guys... i feel terribly alone and insignificant if i didn't think there was some other planet with life out there. earth is still special and one-of-a-kind but man if there was no other civilizations out there smarter than us... i'd be very disappointed with God.

...we're the best you could come up with? COME ON, DUDE. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:37 pm 
I suppose the question I was asking was, if God created other people then the ones here on Earth, then why wouldn't he say anything to us?

It just seems a little out of place.


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Alexander wrote:
I suppose the question I was asking was, if God created other people then the ones here on Earth, then why wouldn't he say anything to us?

It just seems a little out of place.

um... since when has god phoned up anyone lately to begin with? ;)
last i checked he wasn't really talking to us... (in the conventional, explaining-type sense) and if you consider the bible his way of talking, think about when it was written. people back then would have no grasp on the universe, much less the idea of extraterrestrial life. it would have been way over their heads. kinda like that whole "the world is not flat" idea... try explaining something like that to a nomad from 200 B.C.

and who says they're people? maybe they're intelligent... plants...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:11 pm 
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Because God doesn't tell us everything about the whole universe, only what we really need to know. If he created a race of, say, squid-headed people on the other side of the galaxy, would we really need to know that? Probably not.

Now, I'm not saying I believe in extra-terrestrial life, but there really are some other considerations to be made before entirely dismissing it. C. S. Lewis wrote two brilliant books on the subject. I cited one earlier, and the other is named Perelandra.

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CS Lewis = love :mrgreen:

also, God would probably want us to focus on fixing our own problems before we go off and pester his aliens :P

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