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Your honest opinion on homosexuality
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5638		 Page 6 of 18
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:54 am ]
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I don't think the question was whether or not homosexuality should be banned. That's ludicrous.
Author:  ??? [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:20 am ]
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I actually read in the same TIME magazine that my dad got me for that article on the X-Box 360 is that people can'tcontrol their sexuality.

A woman usually has genes that makes her just smell a woman's hormones, yet make her "lust" center of the brain light up when she smells a mans, but sometimes that situation is reversed. She can't help it.

The same goes for men.
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:36 am ]
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Sexuality(whether you're gay, bi, or straight), or Gender Identity(Whether your transgendered/transsexual) are hardcoded in some form or another, whether you're born with it or not, and essentially every attempt to "Cure" them through psychiatric means or otherwise have failed and ultimately only caused damage.

Anyone who argues otherwise is generally uninformed, arrogant, and running out of ammo.
Author:  Frotzer [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:39 am ]
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Whatever this is I posted on a other topic like this.COME ON PEOPLE!!!!
Cant you see the gay people and homosexuals are polluting our country with their ommitted They should move all to one place and put a bag over their heads an think about what evil they are doing to us.Today In school I saw this one person for no reason come up to me and said I was is best freind and he said he loved me but I was raged by this and went insane and beserk and told him I didnt love him I HATED HIM!!!
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:43 am ]
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frotzer wrote:
Whatever this is I posted on a other topic like this.COME ON PEOPLE!!!!
Cant you see the gay people and homosexuals are polluting our country with their ommitted They should move all to one place and put a bag over their heads an think about what evil they are doing to us.Today In school I saw this one person for no reason come up to me and said I was is best freind and he said he loved me but I was raged by this and went insane and beserk and told him I didnt love him I HATED HIM!!!
Homophobia is a wasted emotion. They are doing nothing wrong, all they are trying to do is to live their lives the way they want to. As for the dude that you raged on at school, he was probably joking around with you, that happens.
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:44 am ]
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frotzer wrote:
Whatever this is I posted on a other topic like this.COME ON PEOPLE!!!!
Cant you see the gay people and homosexuals are polluting our country with their ommitted They should move all to one place and put a bag over their heads an think about what evil they are doing to us.Today In school I saw this one person for no reason come up to me and said I was is best freind and he said he loved me but I was raged by this and went insane and beserk and told him I didnt love him I HATED HIM!!!


Hahahahaha. Awesome.

Wait, is he being serious? I've checked out his old posts and he's never gotten in trouble for this. As a member of the LGBT community I find this hilarious but also offensive and scary because I know what kind of damage a person like frozter can do to people.
Author:  Dark Grapefruit [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:25 am ]
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I refuse to believe anyone can be that bigoted. Please stop shaking my faith in humanity.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:27 am ]
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Dark Grapefruit wrote:
I refuse to believe anyone can be that bigoted. Please stop shaking my faith in humanity.
Unfortunately they exist, I don't know if Frotzer is that bigoted, but there are people out there who are.
Author:  Jerome [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:21 am ]
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frotzer wrote:
Cant you see the gay people and homosexuals are polluting our country with their ommitted
Gay people and homosexuals? Are they not the same people?
frotzer wrote:
They should move all to one place and put a bag over their heads an think about what evil they are doing to us.
Oh no, men who like men! EEEEEVIL! What are they doing to you, anyway? And what's with the bag on the heads? Do you mean a bag each or just one bag for all of them?
frotzer wrote:
Today In school
Ah, this explains a lot. The immature kid who hates for no particular reason.
frotzer wrote:
I saw this one person for no reason come up to me and said I was is best freind and he said he loved me
Man, that sounds really funny! If I saw that I'd've laughed my a-- off.
frotzer wrote:
but I was raged by this and went insane and beserk and told him I didnt love him I HATED HIM!!!
Maybe you should see a counsellor about these anger management issues.
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:41 pm ]
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I always like how people like Frotzer disappear as soon as they're met with opposition.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:31 pm ]
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Beyond the Grave wrote:
Rosalie, try not to double post.

seamusz wrote:
There are lots of indications that the exepting of homosexuality has come with a moral breakdown of society in general.
Give me one good example of how being tolerant and accepting towards homosexuality has helped in the moral breakdown of society.


Well, like I said, it is all very subjective. I would say that one big piece of evidence that I view as pretty direct, is the organizations such as the nambl association. With and through the acceptance of homosexuality, organizations such as this have justified their behaviors on the basis of "if there is love, how can it be wrong?"
Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:46 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Rosalie, try not to double post.

seamusz wrote:
There are lots of indications that the exepting of homosexuality has come with a moral breakdown of society in general.
Give me one good example of how being tolerant and accepting towards homosexuality has helped in the moral breakdown of society.


Well, like I said, it is all very subjective. I would say that one big piece of evidence that I view as pretty direct, is the organizations such as the nambl association. With and through the acceptance of homosexuality, organizations such as this have justified their behaviors on the basis of "if there is love, how can it be wrong?"

In a way, you're right, perhaps.. If people are more accepting of same sex relationships, they might be more accepting of same sex relationships between people of vastly different ages.
Somehow, though, I doubt it. Relationships between people of opposite sexes are socially accepted, but most people would say it's wrong for a 50 year old man to have a relationship with a 10 year old girl.
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:46 pm ]
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Quote:
Well, like I said, it is all very subjective. I would say that one big piece of evidence that I view as pretty direct, is the organizations such as the nambl association. With and through the acceptance of homosexuality, organizations such as this have justified their behaviors on the basis of "if there is love, how can it be wrong?"


I'm sorry, but right about now is when I stop taking anything you say seriously.

If you don't understand how a legally non-consenting relationship which, unlike gay relationships, more often than not involves rape, or insist that the populace as a whole is incapable of making this distinction, you're not deserving of my respect.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:19 pm ]
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Rosalie wrote:
Quote:
Well, like I said, it is all very subjective. I would say that one big piece of evidence that I view as pretty direct, is the organizations such as the nambl association. With and through the acceptance of homosexuality, organizations such as this have justified their behaviors on the basis of "if there is love, how can it be wrong?"


I'm sorry, but right about now is when I stop taking anything you say seriously.

If you don't understand how a legally non-consenting relationship which, unlike gay relationships, more often than not involves rape, or insist that the populace as a whole is incapable of making this distinction, you're not deserving of my respect.


Maybe you would like it better if I just agreed with everything you said. Maybe I should become a lemming... Would I then deserve your respect?


EDIT: psst... the NAMBLA are consenting relationships, they claim anyway... just to let you know. ;)
Author:  Mistle Rose [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:49 pm ]
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Oh gods, don't be a moron. I don't disrespect you because you disagree with me, I disagree with you because you're comparing homosexuals to paedophiles. Your latest little trite shows how incapable you are of putting up a defense for your empty arguments.

Quote:
EDIT: psst... the NAMBLA are consenting relationships, they claim anyway... just to let you know.


No, they're not. A relationship between an adult and minor is inherently not consenting.

The fact that you even tried to make a point of it bemuses me. You know very well there's a world of difference between a kid and an adult and an adult and an adult.
Author:  Smorky [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:22 pm ]
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I don't really see that much of a difference. Many gay supporters say that you can't choose who you're attracted to, so I don't see the difference in being attracted to people of the same gender, family members, children, animals, or anything else.
Author:  Homeschool Winner [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:25 pm ]
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I have to say that, while going to a school where about 96% of the people are homophobes, it's cool to see that most of the people here aren't homophobic.

I just can't understand people who discriminate others because of their sexuality, race, gender, or something like that. For people like Frotzer, I just have this to say: Say you have brown hair, and some people with, say, blonde hair discriminated you because of your brown hair, that would be unbelieveably unfair. Is being homophobic really that different?
Author:  Smorky [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:31 pm ]
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It really annoys me when everyone who dislikes gay people is called a homphobe. Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean you are afraid of them. Maybe everyone who doesn't like "homophobes" should be called a "homophobophobe" because obviously the only reason you would dislike "homophobes" is because you are afraid of them.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:38 pm ]
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Smorky wrote:
I don't really see that much of a difference. Many gay supporters say that you can't choose who you're attracted to, so I don't see the difference in being attracted to people of the same gender, family members, children, animals, or anything else.


But don't you see Rosalie's point about the issue of consent? I'd say that that's the fundemental difference between paedophilia and homosexuality, among many other differences. And as for bestality and incest - bestality is an indicator of serious personality disorders. And incest makes for inferior offspring - so instinctally we know it's wrong.

Quote:
it really annoys me when everyone who dislikes gay people is called a homphobe. Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean you are afraid of them. Maybe everyone who doesn't like "homophobes" should be called a "homophobophobe" because obviously the only reason you would dislike "homophobes" is because you are afraid of them.


A phobia isn't only if you fear something, it's also used if you have an intense dislike or hatred. I agree that you're not necessarily homophobic if you just disapprove of homosexuality as a behaviour. But I think Homeschool was talking mostly about people like Frotzer, who are homophobes in every sense of the word.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:43 pm ]
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Im not sure if I was understood, I wasn't comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, but that the acceptance of homosexuality has led to an increase in the scope of people who would like to justify unethical behaviors. Those in the man boy love organizations do not believe that they are engaging in pedophila, but that they are expressing their love in an appropriate way, with consenting minors.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:06 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
Im not sure if I was understood, I wasn't comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, but that the acceptance of homosexuality has led to an increase in the scope of people who would like to justify unethical behaviors. Those in the man boy love organizations do not believe that they are engaging in pedophila, but that they are expressing their love in an appropriate way, with consenting minors.


As you've said yourself, what's considered ethical by anyone is subjective. I personally would base ethical sexual behavior on whether the partners consent, whether they're of an age to fully understand what's going on, whether they're not sleeping around too much, whether they're responsible about the consequences, whether they are faithful to their partners. I don't claim that all gay people are innocent on all those points, but neither are heterosexuals.

And what unethical behaviour has the acceptance of homosexuality justified? You've cited NAMBLA, but the public definately hasn't accepted their behavior.

And whether or not NAMBLA call themselves paedophiles, they are paedophiles. And they can protest to the world that their "partners" say yes to them, I seriously doubt that those children know what's really going on. And that's why NAMBLA won't get their way legally - it's common sense what they're doing.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:20 pm ]
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What's her face wrote:
As you've said yourself, what's considered ethical by anyone is subjective. I personally would base ethical sexual behavior on whether the partners consent, whether they're of an age to fully understand what's going on, whether they're not sleeping around too much, whether they're responsible about the consequences, whether they are faithful to their partners. I don't claim that all gay people are innocent on all those points, but neither are heterosexuals.

And what unethical behaviour has the acceptance of homosexuality justified? You've cited NAMBLA, but the public definately hasn't accepted their behavior.

And whether or not NAMBLA call themselves paedophiles, they are paedophiles. And they can protest to the world that their "partners" say yes to them, I seriously doubt that those children know what's really going on. And that's why NAMBLA won't get their way legally - it's common sense what they're doing.


But my argument is that I see homosexuality as deviant behavior (to set the record straight, the same goes for any sexual relations outside of marriage), but others do not. The only difference between this and other behaviors that are more commonly considered unethical(like the NAMBLA), is that less people feel that it is ethical. I am saying that the acceptance of homosexuality and other sexually liberal lifestyles are contributing to the continual degradation of what people in general consider appropriate.

I'm sorry if I’m hard to follow, I hope this makes sense... not that you necessarily agree with what I'm saying, but that you see where I'm coming from.
Author:  Didymus [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:30 pm ]
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Rosalie wrote:
Sexuality(whether you're gay, bi, or straight), or Gender Identity(Whether your transgendered/transsexual) are hardcoded in some form or another, whether you're born with it or not, and essentially every attempt to "Cure" them through psychiatric means or otherwise have failed and ultimately only caused damage.

Anyone who argues otherwise is generally uninformed, arrogant, and running out of ammo.

Actually, Rosalie, where is your evidence? You have been very quick to criticize everyone else's beliefs on this topic, but I haven't seen you present a whole lot to support your case.

And whether or not there is some so-called "gay gene" is irrelevant anyway, because homosexuality is still essentially a behavior, which means that it still falls within the realm of morality.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:30 pm ]
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Quote:
But my argument is that I see homosexuality as deviant behavior (to set the record straight, the same goes for any sexual relations outside of marriage), but others do not. The only difference between this and other behaviors that are more commonly considered unethical(like the NAMBLA), is that less people feel that it is ethical. I am saying that the acceptance of homosexuality and other sexually liberal lifestyles are contributing to the continual degradation of what people in general consider appropriate.

I'm sorry if I’m hard to follow, I hope this makes sense... not that you necessarily agree with what I'm saying, but that you see where I'm coming from.


I appreciate that that's your honest opinion, and that you're not driven by blind hatred or prejudice. I, for one, definately see where you're coming from. But while you see that the acceptance of homosexuality is lowering ethical standards, I see it as a natural progression towards a more advanced society - where we can only profit from being more accepting and tolerent. Though I don't agree with you still drawing any kind of comparison with NAMBLA, your main point's taken.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:37 pm ]
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Thanks for that.

WHF wrote:
But while you see that the acceptance of homosexuality is lowering ethical standards, I see it as a natural progression towards a more advanced society


Funny how there is a fine line there.
Author:  DeadGaySon [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:48 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
Funny how there is a fine line there.


Extremely fin line. But I'm siding with What's Her Face.

NAMBLA scars small children for life. Two consenting homosexual adults getting married because they love each other scars nobody, and harms nobody.

as John Lennon once said, All you need is love. What's wrong with something that puts more love in the world?
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:50 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
WHF wrote:
But while you see that the acceptance of homosexuality is lowering ethical standards, I see it as a natural progression towards a more advanced society


Funny how there is a fine line there.


You left out the most important part of that sentence - about acceptance and tolerence. That's what makes a society advanced.

There may be a fine line there, but there's also a fine line between a society that puts a curb on people's private lives and personal freedoms, and a society that will regress into a hopeless dark age. I can tell you some horror stories about Ireland in the 50s, but that's not for here.

It's all about taking things in moderation - we definately should have ethics, but we should also respect personal freedom, imo.

Anyhow, toastpaint myself.
Author:  seamusz [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:00 pm ]
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DeadGaySon wrote:
All you need is love. What's wrong with something that puts more love in the world?


You don't seem to understand that a person who is in the NAMBLA will say that he and his partner do have love. How can you prove that they do not? Do you know for sure that a man and a boy can't have an intimate relationship with out harm to the boy? Of course you don't, because it is perfectly reasonable that there are those who engage in such behaviors who might not be harmed and have a truely meaningful relationship, who are you to say that they can't?
Author:  The For-Real Deal [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:07 pm ]
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Ever notice how more men are homophobes? As far as I'm concerned, Homophobia is just a cowardly way for insecure guys to "assert their manliness". BS. Any brave person is not afraid of those different from them.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:12 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
DGS wrote:
All you need is love. What's wrong with something that puts more love in the world?


You don't seem to understand that a person who is in the NAMBLA will say that he and his partner do have love. How can you prove that they do not? Do you know for sure that a man and a boy can't have an intimate relationship with out harm to the boy? Of course you don't, because it is perfectly reasonable that there are those who engage in such behaviors who might not be harmed and have a truely meaningful relationship, who are you to say that they can't?


I know that you're probably playing devil's advocate, but anyhow...... Even if it doesn't scar the child, it's best policy to assume it will. A child can't understand sexuality fully before they reach adolescence, and even then they're still developing and usually aren't fully sexually mature until adulthood. So they can't really understand what's happening, even if they allow the abuse (or whatever) to happen. The issue of consent is more envolved than saying "yes" - that's why there are statutory rape laws.
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