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Your honest opinion on homosexuality
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5638		 Page 2 of 18
Author:  Didymus [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:52 pm ]
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About the penguins: I'm not sure human beings should base their behavior on observation of animal behavior. Besides, one of the penguins went straight.

I disagree with you, Needle Dog. In fact, I would contend that anyone who claims to adhere to a religion but does not allow that religion to shape their ideology is essentially a hypocrit. And just because you tell us that forming opinions based on religion is wrong or dangerous does not make it true.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:53 pm ]
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If your religion's views on something like homosexuality make sense to you, that view is your opinion.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:59 pm ]
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Didymus wrote:
I'm not sure human beings should base their behavior on observation of animal behavior. Besides, one of the penguins went straight


Did he? Oh well....

The point wasn't really that humans should base their behaviour on animal behaviour. It's just that homosexuality is known to happen in nature, so the argument that it isn't natural is called to question.

That's notwithstanding religious arguments against it, though from what I've seen, there are Christians here who accept homosexuality. I'm not going to argue who's right or wrong.
Author:  Needle Dog [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:03 pm ]
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IanTheGecko wrote:
If your religion's views on something like homosexuality make sense to you, that view is your opinion.


That's valid, I'm not that strict on the 'no religion' part of this thread.

I guess it doesn't sit well with me that a bunch of people, that know only one or two gay people, can have such a strong reaction to their lifestyle because of some vague passages in a religious tome. I don't want the bible qutotes because they don't (like it or not) mean much to non Christians. Let's not get into a debate about my last statement though, I want to see if it's possable to cary on a reasomnable conversation about this without brining bible qutes into it. You can talk about religion, since it obviously (sometimes unfortunatly) shaped some of your opinions.
Author:  kaemmerite [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:59 pm ]
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To be honest, I've always found the concept of two people of the same gender having romantic involvement together kinda disturbing to me. So while my belief is based on Scripture, it has always been an opinion of mine.
Author:  extremejon09 [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:51 pm ]
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Ok, anyone should be able to do what they want as long as it doesent hurt anyone else. The only reason I can POSSIBLY think of why someone not likeing g--(Am I allowed to say that here? I better not just play it safe, but I'd only say it to save keystokes/sylables) people is that its against there religion. The whole "Banning g-- marrieges" thing...It kind of reminds me off the witchhunts y'know? Making laws ASSUMEING that everyone is Christen. The whole reason America was started is for freedom of religion, and I'm tired of the goverment trying to pass laws to force chirstin beliefs onto others. Same goes for Abortions

As a side note, I'd like to say its depressing going to a school where everyone is insensitive. Every other word out of everyones mouth is either A certain G word, F word, Other F word. One of my teachers says it reminds her of back in her day they used a certain "J" word (Used in this context would be offensive) as a negative term.
Author:  DJ Soul Camel [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:04 am ]
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kaemmerite wrote:
To be honest, I've always found the concept of two people of the same gender having romantic involvement together kinda disturbing to me

I'm curious to know why you would find it disturbing
Author:  Needle Dog [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:19 am ]
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extremejon09 wrote:
Ok, anyone should be able to do what they want as long as it doesent hurt anyone else. The only reason I can POSSIBLY think of why someone not likeing g--(Am I allowed to say that here? I better not just play it safe, but I'd only say it to save keystokes/sylables) people is that its against there religion. The whole "Banning g-- marrieges" thing...It kind of reminds me off the witchhunts y'know? Making laws ASSUMEING that everyone is Christen. The whole reason America was started is for freedom of religion, and I'm tired of the goverment trying to pass laws to force chirstin beliefs onto others. Same goes for Abortions

As a side note, I'd like to say its depressing going to a school where everyone is insensitive. Every other word out of everyones mouth is either A certain G word, F word, Other F word. One of my teachers says it reminds her of back in her day they used a certain "J" word (Used in this context would be offensive) as a negative term.


There's nothing wrong with the word 'gay', just so you know.
Author:  Needle Dog [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:25 am ]
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Didymus wrote:
About the penguins: I'm not sure human beings should base their behavior on observation of animal behavior. Besides, one of the penguins went straight.

I disagree with you, Needle Dog. In fact, I would contend that anyone who claims to adhere to a religion but does not allow that religion to shape their ideology is essentially a hypocrit. And just because you tell us that forming opinions based on religion is wrong or dangerous does not make it true.


I never said that forming opinions based on your religions is wrong. Stop twisting my words. I was saying that froming an opinion based on some cryptic passages (that people of the same faith even disagree about) is careless.
Author:  Didymus [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:59 am ]
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Quote:
I was saying that froming an opinion based on some cryptic passages

To me, there's not much distinction between these two. As a Christian, my faith is based on the writings of Scripture, and as a Bible scholar trained to read the Scriptures in the original languages, I'm not convinced that the passages are nearly as "cryptic" as that. On the contrary, they are quite straightforward. I wasn't twisting your words; I was simply responding to what I understood you to be saying. If I misinterpreted, that's a different matter, and I thank you for the correction.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Your honest opinion on homosexuality
Needle Dog wrote:
I would like to hear your views on gay rights without hearing any bible quotes or any religious views at all. I just want to hear you real views on this dispite your religious views.


Impossible for most. Religion is what many base their thoughts on subjects like this on.

I, however, am in no way religious, so i can eaisly obey this rule :). I have no problem with homosexuality, it's fine with me. If two men or towo woman love each other, and possibly wnat to get married, so be it, not my problem, they can choose how to live. Just because your religious veiws say taht homosexuality is bad doesn't mean other's do. You take your path, they'll take there's, it's not your decision how they choose to live their lives.

(Just in case anyoen was confused, by "you", I don't mean anyone here. It just came out of my fingers that way)
Author:  Helmut [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:53 am ]
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*raises glass*

To those among us who are humble and outspoken! Cheers!
Author:  Encountering Gremlins [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:06 am ]
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Well, I'm certainly far from overly religious, so that aspect doesn't come into my mind at all when I think of gay rights. I still fail to see how anyone would willingly choose that sort of lifestyle - Jones has stressed this enough times, and I can't agree more. I may not share the specific mindset of the gay community, but I can understand where they're coming from with having a "problem" that people automatically assume you can easily change. Whatever floats their boat, I say, and I see no reason why these people can't have the same rights as anyone else without the religious side coming in. And I think this thread was specifically designed to not bring religion into it, which kinda complicates things. Oh well.
Author:  Jerome [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:49 am ]
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I've got no problem with it. Doesn't bother me at all.
Author:  Acekirby [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:58 pm ]
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Jerome wrote:
I've got no problem with it. Doesn't bother me at all.

This is pretty much what I view homosexuality from. I'm not homosexual, and I've got nothing against anybody who is. This might sound like I'm taking a cop-out, but if someone wants/is homosexual, it's their business, not mine. I don't feel anyone has any right to tell someone else that they're lifestyle is wrong, no matter what the first person believes.

If someone loves another person that is the same sex, and they want to get married, that's fine with me. It doesn't effect me either way.

(Sorry if any of that was a bit insensitive...)
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:20 pm ]
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Acekirby wrote:
I'm not homosexual


If you were secure in your sexuality you wouldn't have to say that :p.

JK, but they're nothing wrong with saying you don't mind people being gay, I just think that it's too much of a knee jerk reaction to immedately say "I'm not gay" afterwords.
Author:  DeadGaySon [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:21 pm ]
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I have a few gay friends, and I was raised to belive that everyone has a right to their own lifestyle, as long as it doesn't harm others. I am perfectly fine with homosexuality.

If you chose to be against it because or your religious beliefs, I see nothing wrong with that. My only problem is when people go around trying to illegalise gay marriage. There are so many different religions and beliefs in this country, it makes no sense at all to base our laws on any one religion. If god actually exists, and has condemned homosexuality, then they will all get punished in hell, so why should we try to interfere?

One thing that really gets me mad is when people go around using the word 'gay' as an adjective. No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:37 pm ]
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DeadGaySon wrote:
One thing that really gets me mad is when people go around using the word 'gay' as an adjective. No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!


Yeah, that ticks me off. They could use dumb, stupid, malfunctioning, but they choose a word which makes no sense in the context. It's pretty much an insult to those who are homosexual, which annoys me, because I know so people who are actually gay, and they're perfectly normal, nice people, yet some jerks have turned gay into an insult.

If I were a homosexual, I;d never admit it. People would be jerks about it.

Luckily for me, I don't have that problem, as I'm heterosexual. But there are probably people you know who are gay and don't want to admit it for fear of their life changing because idiots don't know how to "handle" it.
Author:  Smorky [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:56 pm ]
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DeadGaySon wrote:
One thing that really gets me mad is when people go around using the word 'gay' as an adjective. No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!


Actually, the word "gay" is an adjective, but people just don't use the definition it was originally intended to have. But people never use "curse words" (for lack of a better word) with their original meanings. How many people do you think actually go around calling people "children born out of wedlock"?
Author:  extremejon09 [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:04 am ]
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Ju Ju Master wrote:
DeadGaySon wrote:
One thing that really gets me mad is when people go around using the word 'gay' as an adjective. No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!


Yeah, that ticks me off. They could use dumb, stupid, malfunctioning, but they choose a word which makes no sense in the context. It's pretty much an insult to those who are homosexual, which annoys me, because I know so people who are actually gay, and they're perfectly normal, nice people, yet some jerks have turned gay into an insult.

If I were a homosexual, I;d never admit it. People would be jerks about it.

Luckily for me, I don't have that problem, as I'm heterosexual. But there are probably people you know who are gay and don't want to admit it for fear of their life changing because idiots don't know how to "handle" it.


Word.
Its pretty much the modern equilvilant of Stupid. Or, if an An agruement, alongside the f word, is just what you say to win when your lose. Like that one time.....
Guy: Yeah? Well the PSP has GTA!
Me: Only one good game? DS has Trama Center...Castlevania...Met-
Guy: Those don't count, there all gay.
Me:...Ok, by calling inanimate objects gay, you...pretty much just lost this agurement
Guy: F YOU! *Actully runs away...wow*

Yeah, like I said, around where I am its like the Salem Witch Trials
Other Guy: So Jon, Do you have a girlfreind?
Me: Uh...Not right now.
other: ....WHAT ARE YOU??!!! GAY???!!!
Me: No, I'm not
Other: *ignores above, tells everyone Im gay, I'm avoided like the Plegg for about week*

:rolleyes: I really hope the rest of America Isent this dumb...
Author:  Mr.KISS [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:09 am ]
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its not just america either, its every retarded little 13 year old (sorry DS) who use all these stupid slangs because everyone else says it. I've said this before, but even soem adults fall prey to this, it really bugs me.
Author:  Dark Grapefruit [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:39 am ]
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As an atheist and a moral relativist, I have no reason to justify condemming homosexuality. My philosophy is that if it doesn't affect me in some way, I don't care what two people do with each other. I'm so proud of my government for allowing same-sex marraige.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:13 am ]
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Smorky wrote:
DeadGaySon wrote:
One thing that really gets me mad is when people go around using the word 'gay' as an adjective. No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!


Actually, the word "gay" is an adjective, but people just don't use the definition it was originally intended to have. But people never use "curse words" (for lack of a better word) with their original meanings. How many people do you think actually go around calling people "children born out of wedlock"?


I do, it confuses stupid people.
Author:  homestarman17 [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:52 am ]
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My opinion is that man and woman were created to fall in love with each other. I don't think that homosexuals will be damned to hell just because they love someone of their same sex, but I do think that homosexuality is a perversion of what love was meant to be.
Author:  Woofle [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:58 am ]
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I'm gay , and I don't particularly care if people dissaprove of it. End of story.
Author:  Trev-MUN [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:54 am ]
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Quote:
No, sorry, our parents are not 'gay', your math teacher is not 'gay' your cell phone is not 'gay' Elton John is Gay, open a dictionary!


*chuckles bitterly* You're witnessing the evolution of a language. Gays did this to the word 'gay' before homophobes did.

Confused? Let me explain.

Personally, I think what's happened to the word 'gay' is a good reason to NOT try and co-opt words.

Before the middle/latter half of the 20th century, the word "gay" appeared in the dictionary as “carefree”, “happy”, or “bright and showy." It was once very common in speech and literature and used in that context.

I mean, think back to the Flinstones (Their theme song; "We'll have a gay old time!"), or World War II.

The homosexual community co-opted the word 'gay' to mean someone who is homosexual starting around the 1920's--you can see the transformation of its usage there, and ever increasing as the decades go by.

This was a concious act, not something that just happened. A satirical British newspaper, the Private Eye, used to mock the whole "transform the word gay to mean homosexual" movement with a comic called "The Sads."

So then the homosexual community successfully eclipsed the original meaning of the word. Most people probably don't even know that 'gay' meant something else other than 'homosexual' in the past (although dictionaries still list that definition ... it might as well be archaic).

But then the word started to change again at the hands of the other parts of society.

Since no one remembered what 'gay' meant, only knowing it now was a label for homosexuality, homophobes began using it however they could in negative contexts. The same goes with the other two well-known homosexual-referencing insults.

As a person who gets irate over the concious changing of meanings behind icons and words (for example, France and much of Europe now views Celtic and Norse symbology as being Neo-Nazi symbols because of their widespread usage of such symbols), this kind of thing just makes me shake my head bitterly.

So too do I get angry with a certain other group who's trying to do the same thing gays did--an atheist secular humanist faction trying to change the meaning of the word "bright" to mean "atheist."

I refuse to call them by the name they've awarded themselves, for that only helps them achieve their goals--but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what they've named themselves based on what I just said.

Think about how venomously elitist that particular movement is for a moment. Re-engineering words that have dictionary definitions meaning "intelligent" or "mentally superior" to also mean "atheist." It's a subtle form of atheist zealotry, trying to assert their supposed intellectual superiority over religious (or as that movement refers to the rest of us, "delusional superstitionists") people.

Aside from the sheer arrogance coming from a movement like that, if what happened to the word 'gay' shows anything, then eventually people may start using the word "bright" in negative connotations, thus transforming the word from a harmless adjective to both an elitist one and an insult. Atheists will probably lose the most, over the actions of a few elitists.
Author:  DeadGaySon [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:09 am ]
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Props to Trev, for his superior knowledge of the english language!!!

I knew nothing about the whole 'bright' issue. I've never been called bright, just gifted :p Seriously though, Didy's more 'bright' than I will ever be. But now I'm getting off subject.

So, as Trev awesomely and correctly put it, Gay has one correct dictionary meaning, one transmutated meaning, and one use of the transmutated meaning completely outside any rational thought process. The question is, if I was in a really really good mood (as I am much of the time) and told all of my friends that I was gay, what would their minds immediately go to? They would all assume that I was homosexual. They wouldn't mind, but some people would, and I would get myself in a whole heap of trouble just because I was in a good mood.
Author:  Xyzzyka Gruefrotzer [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:48 pm ]
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I totally support gay peoples. 'Course, I accidentally turned my gay friend bi and now he's my boyfriend, but I swears I didn't do it on purpose! I mean conciously! ^^;

(<--is a girl. See? it rhymes with Jessica, it do!)
Author:  Einoo T. Spork [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:56 pm ]
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Well, homosexuality is a bit......................... strange, but who am I to tell them that's wrong? It's making them happy, and it's not like it's harming anyone!

StrongRad wrote:
InterruptorJones wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Some awesome stuff.


StrongRad, let's have a marriage. Let's have a marriage license. Seriously, you're my new favorite Christian.

Wow, praise from IndianaJones. I WOULD marry ya, but, umm, I think Roxy and Holly would both have a problem with that... They could get married, too! Problem solved.


Roffle. StrongRad, you just made my day.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Einoo T. Spork wrote:
Well, homosexuality is a bit......................... strange, but who am I to tell them that's wrong? It's making them happy, and it's not like it's harming anyone!

StrongRad wrote:
InterruptorJones wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Some awesome stuff.


StrongRad, let's have a marriage. Let's have a marriage license. Seriously, you're my new favorite Christian.

Wow, praise from IndianaJones. I WOULD marry ya, but, umm, I think Roxy and Holly would both have a problem with that... They could get married, too! Problem solved.


Roffle. StrongRad, you just made my day.


Why is it strange Einoo? I'm just curious.
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