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| I'm tired of people nonstop insulting George Bush. http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5950 |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:33 pm ] |
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Sarge wrote: StrongRad wrote: Sarge wrote: These people that are saying that they don't like anyone saying things that "insult Bush" are laughable: You can't help but insult Bush if you're critical of him. He takes insult from considered criticism if it in any way isn't locked in goose-step with the "talking points" his propagandists distribute. Actually, you CAN be critical of someone without insulting them. There's nothing wrong with "Bush should have done a little more fact checking before he came out and said "Iraq has WMDs". That's an intelligent criticism, and probably one both sides agree with. Saying something like "I think this 'war on terror' is undermining national security by angering those who might be swayed to attack us" is also an intelligent, non-insulting criticism. Saying "Bush is a baby killer" or "Bush lied, innocents died" is not. Bush did lie, and innocents did die. Perhaps calling him a baby-killer is a bit extreme since he's never personally killed any babies (that I know of) but you can't deny that innocent people are dead because of his war in Iraq. He lied about WMDs as an excuse to start a war, and now innocent people are dead. I suppose you'll come back and say that Bush didn't lie and that he was mislead by the intelligence community. but that's a cop-out. He's the one sitting at the desk that has a "The Buck Stops Here" sign on it, not the CIA, not the DHS: Him. He's responsible for his decisions, no matter how much you might want to spin it to a "Someone else is to blame for staring the war" angle. Innocent people ARE dead because of the war in Iraq. We all know, though, that pre-war Iraq was a land where children played in playgrounds made of chocolate and ever person lived a life that would make Paris Hilton green with envy, right? Sorry, "Bush lied, people died" is the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard. That's like saying Clinton fired cruise missiles into Iraq and killed people because the media found out about Monica Lewinsky. While it makes the people who spew that kind of garbage feel smart, it's just not the truth. The fact is, he did not lie. He told what he thought was the truth. It's not the president's job to gather intelligence. Yes, the buck DOES stop at his desk, but he can only be help responsible for the things he has control over. The people who told him Iraq had WMDs were probably wrong. Their job is to provide accurate and timely intelligence to the decision makers. They apparently didn't do that. At work, when someone under you don't give you the things you need to do your job, and you don't get it done, do you say "they didn't give me what I needed, so it's my fault"? Iraq was in violation of the cease-fire agreements from the first war. They did not allow UN inspectors to do their job (and they agreed they would). That reason alone makes me wish we would have waited and gotten more international help (like in the first war). We had a pretty good idea of how much stuff they had before that war (we supplied Saddam with some of it), and how much we destroyed afterwards. There was a remainder. Where did it go? Did it simply disappear? Did they give it to someone? Did they destroy them? If so, why didn't they openly brag about it to the UN (ok, brag isn't the word I'm looking for, but still)? If they had no WMD's, why did they do everything in their power to stop UN inspectors from doing their jobs? These are questions I have to have intelligent answers to before I buy into "Bush lied, people died" lock, stock, and barrel. |
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| Author: | Wesstarrunner [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:27 pm ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Innocent people ARE dead because of the war in Iraq. We all know, though, that pre-war Iraq was a land where children played in playgrounds made of chocolate and ever person lived a life that would make Paris Hilton green with envy, right? Sorry, "Bush lied, people died" is the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard. That's like saying Clinton fired cruise missiles into Iraq and killed people because the media found out about Monica Lewinsky. While it makes the people who spew that kind of garbage feel smart, it's just not the truth.
The fact is, he did not lie. He told what he thought was the truth. It's not the president's job to gather intelligence. Yes, the buck DOES stop at his desk, but he can only be help responsible for the things he has control over. The people who told him Iraq had WMDs were probably wrong. Their job is to provide accurate and timely intelligence to the decision makers. They apparently didn't do that. At work, when someone under you don't give you the things you need to do your job, and you don't get it done, do you say "they didn't give me what I needed, so it's my fault"? Iraq was in violation of the cease-fire agreements from the first war. They did not allow UN inspectors to do their job (and they agreed they would). That reason alone makes me wish we would have waited and gotten more international help (like in the first war). We had a pretty good idea of how much stuff they had before that war (we supplied Saddam with some of it), and how much we destroyed afterwards. There was a remainder. Where did it go? Did it simply disappear? Did they give it to someone? Did they destroy them? If so, why didn't they openly brag about it to the UN (ok, brag isn't the word I'm looking for, but still)? If they had no WMD's, why did they do everything in their power to stop UN inspectors from doing their jobs? These are questions I have to have intelligent answers to before I buy into "Bush lied, people died" lock, stock, and barrel. I'm with you all the way Strong Rad! |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:09 am ] |
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You know, that's basically a "Me, too". Which is spam. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:24 am ] |
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IantheGecko wrote: You know, that's basically a "Me, too". Which is spam.
If the sole thing in your post is saying something is spam, that too is spam, actually. I also agree completely with StrongRad, he put it well. Saddam tricked the whole world into thinking he had WMDs. So what if he didn't end up having them, everyone thought he did. What were we supposed to do? Sit back and wait for him to use them? We can't take chances like that. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:37 am ] |
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Ju Ju Master wrote: IantheGecko wrote: You know, that's basically a "Me, too". Which is spam. If the sole thing in your post is saying something is spam, that too is spam, actually. I also agree completely with StrongRad, he put it well. Saddam tricked the whole world into thinking he had WMDs. So what if he didn't end up having them, everyone thought he did. What were we supposed to do? Sit back and wait for him to use them? We can't take chances like that. I often wonder if the same people who "knew" Saddam had no WMD's would be criticizing Bush for ignoring a "Clear and present danger" if we didn't attack Iraq and there was a chemical attack against the US. I'm not saying that Iraq would have attacked us with chemical weapons, but if SOMEONE with even half a link to Iraq did, can you imagine what would be said about Bush for not taking pre-emptive action? |
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| Author: | lahimatoa [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:17 pm ] |
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Bwahahaha... Irish Nobel "Peace" Prize winner tells Australian children she wants to kill President Bush. Oh, the irony! |
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| Author: | PianoManGidley [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:22 pm ] |
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lahimatoa wrote: Bwahahaha... Irish Nobel "Peace" Prize winner tells Australian children she wants to kill President Bush.
Oh, the irony! Yes, but to some, killing Bush to prevent the deaths of many innocents in the Middle East is equivalent in view to other people's ideas of killing the members and leaders of terrorist groups who target innocents in America. |
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| Author: | lahimatoa [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:26 pm ] |
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Quote: Yes, but to some, killing Bush to prevent the deaths of many innocents in the Middle East is equivalent in view to other people's ideas of killing the members and leaders of terrorist groups who target innocents in America.
Exactly. The same people who are against killing terrorist leaders usually feel there is no problem with wanting to kill Bush for a similar reason. |
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| Author: | lahimatoa [ Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
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New Harris poll shows that 50% of Americans believe Iraq did indeed have WMDs, up from 36% last year. So either the Bush spin machine has been doing a great job over the past year, or it's becoming increasingly obvious that Iraq did have WMDs and either shipped them out when the US invaded or we haven't found them yet. Iraq is a large country with lots of desert to hide things in. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:02 pm ] |
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Doesn't really matter what the polls say. What matters is the concrete evidence. We'll wait and see what this declassified material is. |
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| Author: | sci-fi greg [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:38 am ] |
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You're right. He's not evil. He's just stupid. Really, really stupid. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:17 am ] |
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You didn't happen to read the title of this thread before posting, did you? |
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| Author: | Wesstarrunner [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:47 am ] |
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Bush is no great president. He's no Ronald Reagan or FDR, but he seems to have good intentions at heart. I think we need more people with good intentions that aren't afraid to take a chance. Besides, the Iraq conflict did help people (the Iraqis that were being tortured by their dictator), it isn't a failure and we need to just persevere. We are in a war and look at our economy. It is pretty good for a wartime economy, and if it wasn't for gas prices and such we would have an even better economy. Sci-fi greg, I bet the only real reason you think he's stupid is because he talks like, what you might say, "a country hick". He isn't stupid he's just a Texan with a Texan accent. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:50 am ] |
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Wesstarrunner wrote: Sci-fi greg, I bet the only real reason you think he's stupid is because he talks like, what you might say, "a country hick". He isn't stupid he's just a Texan with a Texan accent. Well the fact that he can't pronounce "nuclear" doesn't help things.
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| Author: | Wesstarrunner [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:58 am ] |
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He can't help he was raised with a Texan accent either. You don't go around insulting Chinese people because they talk funny. Why do it to Bush because he talks funny? He can't help it and that's about as bad as it gets when you make fun of somebody because they can't help something, believe me I've been in that boat plenty of times. EDIT: I JUST REALIZED MY 200th POST! I NEED CAKE EVERYBODY! IT'S SO AWESOME.....! Okay I'm done. |
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| Author: | IantheGecko [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:02 am ] |
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Wesstarrunner wrote: You don't go around insulting Chinese people because they talk funny. Rosie O'Donnell did.
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| Author: | Wesstarrunner [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:10 am ] |
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That's because she's a bigot, plain and simple. Making fun of people is the worst form of bigotry. We all do it and it hurts the ones we do it too. We have all had it done to us too and it hurts. We're all guilty, but does that make it right? No. And I wouldn't be using Rosie O'Donnell as my role model if I were you anyhow. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:15 am ] |
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Wesstarrunner wrote: That's because she's a bigot, plain and simple. Making fun of people is the worst form of bigotry. We all do it and it hurts the ones we do it too. We have all had it done to us too and it hurts. We're all guilty, but does that make it right? No. And I wouldn't be using Rosie O'Donnell as my role model if I were you anyhow. And you have a lot of personal experience with this, don't you.
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| Author: | ramrod [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:17 am ] |
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Beyond the Grave wrote: Wesstarrunner wrote: That's because she's a bigot, plain and simple. Making fun of people is the worst form of bigotry. We all do it and it hurts the ones we do it too. We have all had it done to us too and it hurts. We're all guilty, but does that make it right? No. And I wouldn't be using Rosie O'Donnell as my role model if I were you anyhow. And you have a lot of personal experience with this, don't you. |
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| Author: | Wesstarrunner [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:24 am ] |
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I've been on both ends. We ALL have. And in that fiasco with the Gay Rights and the locking and the locking and the locking of that thread I never made fun of gays. Some of those who didn't like my views made fun of me, but I never made fun of gays. Now lets get on the topic that is: The bashing of George W. Bush our current president. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:26 am ] |
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Okay. Before we get back into that headache again, I'm going to say, enough is enough. From this point forward, I want intelligent conversation about this topic. In this part of the forum, we have higher expectations than this. Simply calling someone "stupid" because you personally don't like them or disagree with their ideals is considered bad taste. I'm not a huge Bush fan myself, but I get tired of people bashing him unprovoked. I've seen so much junk on the web, looking for pics or articles and such, and finding constant insulting of Bush. Now, if it were mere satire, that would be one thing, but I'm more than half convinced that most of the people who post that stuff believe it, and without any real cause. |
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| Author: | Al Capone II [ Tue May 29, 2007 2:59 am ] |
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I agree. If anyone should be bashed, it would be the U.S. government, of whom Bush is just the face. And don't forget the fact that the Democratic Congress just approved the Iraq war-funding bill, making them as culpable as Bush. |
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| Author: | PianoManGidley [ Tue May 29, 2007 3:08 am ] |
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Al Capone II wrote: I agree. If anyone should be bashed, it would be the U.S. government, of whom Bush is just the face. And don't forget the fact that the Democratic Congress just approved the Iraq war-funding bill, making them as culpable as Bush.
And don't forget that we as a collective people continue to support our own government, at least insofar that we don't collectively wish to overthrow it...for now... Perhaps the real blame lies on the people who continue to support their own governmental system. If we all really have such a problem with something, maybe we should do more than rant on our blogs to our friends. Maybe we should rally...all 300 million of us marching down to Washington, D.C., and then just hold the 600 or so people representing us hostage until they fix what they've broken. |
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| Author: | Sbemailman [ Tue May 29, 2007 4:16 am ] |
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It's not just Bush. Making fun of ANY president is funny. |
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| Author: | Einoo T. Spork [ Tue May 29, 2007 4:25 am ] |
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Sbemailman wrote: It's not just Bush. Making fun of ANY president is funny.
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| Author: | Sbemailman [ Tue May 29, 2007 4:27 am ] |
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Einoo T. Spork wrote: Sbemailman wrote: It's not just Bush. Making fun of ANY president is funny. ![]() It's true though, every time someone gets voted in, for the next 4-8 years, they are made fun of every change anyone gets. |
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| Author: | Dewy [ Tue May 29, 2007 5:00 am ] |
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Sbemailman wrote: Einoo T. Spork wrote: Sbemailman wrote: It's not just Bush. Making fun of ANY president is funny. ![]() It's true though, every time someone gets voted in, for the next 4-8 years, they are made fun of every change anyone gets. Thats not what we're talking about. Before you post anything from now on, read what the heck we're talking about first before making a stupid comment like that. I'm not really a fan of Bush, but the bashing really has gotten out of hand. There have been worse presidents (look at Nixon). I mean, so what if he can't pronounce "nuclear"? Big whoop, I didn't know the right way to say it either up until about a year ago. Also, he's not the only one causing problems. Its the entire government that is causing the problems that people constantly complain about. |
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| Author: | DESTROY US ALL! [ Tue May 29, 2007 5:26 am ] |
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If we didn't make fun of Bush constantly imagine how stupid we would look to the rest of the world? |
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| Author: | Dewy [ Tue May 29, 2007 6:06 am ] |
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DESTROY US ALL! wrote: If we didn't make fun of Bush constantly imagine how stupid we would look to the rest of the world? Well, quite a bit of the rest of the world still has laws about insulting their leaders so... Also, how will insulting him isn't gonna make us seem more intelligent to other countries?. But there really isn't anything to show that he's "stupid" or "unintelligent". He went to freakin' Harvard AND Yale. As for the stuff he did as a young adult, he's apologized for his actions. And don't try to use the "Nuclear/Nuke-you-lar" argument. So what if he has an accent?
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| Author: | PianoManGidley [ Tue May 29, 2007 2:57 pm ] |
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Dewy wrote: He went to freakin' Harvard AND Yale.
That doesn't mean he's smart--just rich enough to have bought his way in. |
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