StrongCanada wrote:
As far as I'm concerned non-Christians have a right to celebrate what they want when they want, but so do we. I can agree with not pushing the Christian side of Christmas down non-Christians' throats, but we should still be allowed to celebrate the holiday as we wish, just as you should enjoy that privelege as well. Personally, I think that modern Christmas is too commercial and a testament to capitalism at its "finest" as opposed to a true celebration of the birth of Christ anyway.
This season there are a lot of different holidays that people celebrate; Christmas (as Christians celebrate it) is just one of many celebrations. And, yes we don't really know when Christ was actually born, and celebrate it on a Pagan holiday. Lots of holidays coincide with one another, especially around this time of year. And honestly, I am surprised (not offended, just surprised) that you are using "Christmas" in your username, if you are following neo paganism. But maybe that's part of neo paganism? I'll admit my ignorance.
No, Jesus' birth isn't worshipped "on a pagan holiday". As was said, the majority of Christmas traditions, the tree, presents, etc. come from pagan winter festivals such as Yule or Saturnalia. Christmas, like it or not IS based on pagan tradition. Most Christians are so uncomfortable (but most of you wouldn't admit it) towards pagan things you'd never admit it.
I'm not saying it's invalid what you believe, certainly not. Just as long as you recognise that Christmas as most people celebrate it is a tradition with it's roots in Gemanic/Norse(Spruce trees) and Roman(Saturnalia, Feast of the Unconquerable Sun, Sol) paganism, and even Egyptian(Putting up green plants in doors to honour Ra's "recovery"), Celtic and Greek(as much of Rome's mythos and traditions come from here, and I wouldn't be surprised if some tradition is Greek considering how much influence they had "Back in the day"), among other old cultures, and then religions add their own specifics on top of that. Denying that is a lack of respect and tolerance towards my religion and theirs.
I'm using Christmas because in Ireland we say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays, and even being what you yanks would call a "liberal" I have no problem with it as it's what the holiday is modernly called. I'm not entirely happy about it, but it's a nice sounding name; when I say Christmas I don't say it like it's Christ-mas, I say it like it's Krismas, as in Kris Kringle
Since the word sounds nicer than Yule in certain situations, I use that, and it's what we say here. Ireland is similiar to the U.S. in that it is conservative christian, but since it is a little more socially liberal(this is only during the 00s though - I'd say the U.S. was more liberal than Ireland during Clinton's run, since then the U.S. has taken a step back), we don't have lobby groups and we're not afraid of christians forcing their beliefs on us.
I do not feel uncomfortable with it's ties to christianity as I find Christianity's involvement in Christmas imagery rather pleasant.
Not to mention that Christ-mas could be referring to the original Sun-god as Christ means Messiah and a new born God is often seen as a Messiah. I've even heard a rumour that some accounts of Jesus actually got mixed in with various Sun God mythos.
Though, more accurately, I'm using Christmas Rose because it is a type of flower, depicted in my avatar, and Mistle Rose was already taken by my old account.
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