Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

I'm tired of people sidestepping this. But it's true, the majority of bigots ARE socially conservative. That's what much of social conservatism here. I have no problem with fiscal conservatism. I do with social conservatism.

Going by the defeintion of these alone, you can see how this might be possible.

I think people know this, but are enjoying the fact that they don't have to face up to this possibility because nobody generates statistics on homophobes.

But it's most certainly true on the internet, and must be true IRL. How many liberals do you hear of protesting against gay marriage? How many liberals do you think are in the KKK?

I know you think it's terribly offensive. But ti's been stupid and it's something you can own up to. It does not mean I am calling the conservatives on this board bigots, but bigots, in there nature, are far more often conservative than liberal. All the homophobic "family" organisations are conservative, for as start. The views of conservative politicans are very much against many rights that bigots would also be.

So how do you defend this? And do not ask me to prove it, because just about anywhere you go online will prove it.

Stop running and at least try to defend yourselves.

Ok, I will admit that in thory more people who are bigots will be leaning towards the conservative side of things. But, realistically things aren't always as black and white as Conservative/Liberal. I'll admit, looking at it logically, bigotry does seem like something conservative. But, saying that most bigots are raunch conservatives is just ignorant, most people aren't just on one side of things.

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the thing about noone generating statistics on homophobes is because usually the people who generate the Statistics are Homophobes. i, however, have nothing to back this up other than gut-instinct.
the thing about Liberalism is that they want everything to conform to one thing; it has to appeal to everyone and everyone shouldnt be forced to do something. not verry, hell, no liberals are in the KKK, neither are there any in the Black Panthers.
back onto homophobes, Most Homophobic families are Conservatives because they are the Bible Fearers, the one who praise god for everything, the ones that gotta force their belifes amongst others. finally, can you explaine some of theese rights that Conservatives are against, just so i can mkae a valid Argument? thanks.

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Thank you, you accepted what I was saying without sidestepping it or taking it as an insult to anyone who "disagrees".

Now that we've accepted this, how do you think would you differ personally from these conservatives that are causing this kind of mess, and how did this become so?

I don't believe that I have side-stepped what you are saying. I certainly haven't been trying to.



I most certainly haven't accepted anything of the sort, nor do I think that I will ever accept that statement without any sort of proof.

You say that I shouldn't ask you for proof, but what you are stating can't just be said. When you are debating something you need to back up what you say. Simply saying "well that's just the way it is" doesn't cut it. How would you feel if we were to invade a some other country simply because we (the US) knew that they must have weapons of mass destruction. I am pretty certain that you wouldn't be too happy. I would almost be willing to bet that you wouldn't want to see this person elected into any major position of authority. I bet you would want some proof (any bit of proof, besides someone saying "that's just the way it is")

To top it off, you haven't even tried to address my counter to your argument. Look at any of the non-religious political groups in the middle east. By the definition of left and right, they are as left as left gets. But they refuse to allow women certain rights, they consider other people to be infidels who need to be destroyed, and they commit any number of other "bigoted" acts.

So in short, no I am not just going to accept that what you say is true and discuss how it became so.

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Except you're being a complete dick. You very well know that the majority of bigots are conservative, I mean come on, this is stupid that I even have to debate that. Every single uproar over gay rights, or anything of the sort, has nearly always come from a conservative group of people. There is no immediate proof, but I did invite you to prove it for yourself, and you refused. You are being anal and I can't believe you're denying something that's all around you.

Every damn homophobic, racist and sexist organisation is well on the right side of the spectrum. What does this say to you? Why are you trying to ignore this? Why do I need more proof than that?

If this were genuinely objective point, you'd have a point. But something that's all around you shouldn't need proving, because it's already been proved.

I'm interesting how you define left and right. Someone who refuses to allow women certain rights certainly doesn't fit in with left idealogy, but I'd like you to show me how these people are as "Left" as you claim.

Bigotry is not compatible with left idealogoly. Unfortunately, it is with right idealogy as it choses to usurp reason in favour of tradition. Considering that there are a large number of bigotted Conservative organisations, and no liberal ones that I know of, I think this rather proves it.

Quite frankly, if you refuse to accept these points which are damn common knowledge, then there is absolutely no point in debating the issue with you.

You know, I've tried to stay out of this, as this entire thread seems like such an obvious troll, but it sounds really similar to the "It's true because I say it's true" fallacy you were accusing the Christians of in the Religion thread..

Sorry if you can't see that because it's your point, but, from here, that's really what it looks like.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

It's not "true because it's true". It's true because it's all over the papers, internet, and in every social base across america. It's not my damn fault if you turn a blind eye to that.

As soon as God starts appearing in the papers telling people what to do, which of course still leaves room open to interpretation and "is it really god????" then the people in the other thread won't have a point.

All I'm saying is that you are so quick to demand "proof", yet you seem to be totally unwilling to give any proof to your own statement.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Yes, I totally remeber seeing atleast 26 stories about bigots only being conservative in yesterdays paper alone.

Seriously though, if everything the newspapers and internet said was true, then we'd live in one messed up world.

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As the pm said, I have tried to be nice. You can't control your language, now you get banned.

Sorry rose.

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But unfortunately, it still means I've presented my evidence, and now *you* have to counter that.

Even though you can't currently respond, I ask (for any of the others who believe as rose does) what evidence have you presented? I haven't seen any stories of conservative bigots.

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i think this is largely a semantic problem. for example, you've defined being "against gay marriage" as a bigoted position. now, liberalism is also pro-gay rights simply by definition. therefore anyone who was against gay marriage you would call a conservative. so your definition of who is a bigot is kind of circular.

It's circular, and wrong, as I am both conservative and not against gay marriage..
I'm sure there are those who will say I am an exception, not the rule, but, even then, my existence proves them wrong.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I suppose that I am another exception then...

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Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said that whole "our existence proves them wrong" thing..
*waits to see "them" outside my apartment*

Oh, wait, I'm a conservative. Hooray for Charlton Heston and Ted Nugent, crazy as they may be.



Seriously, though, people see the world as completely binary when it's anything but...

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Ok... before this goes any further... let me straighten some things out.



For one, they are not going to flat-out say that conservatives are bigots in a news report.

It's not about what the media says, it's about common sense. The conservatives will whine and sue the media that presented that kind of speech.

And you also have to look at who is who in particular arguements and debates. Generally, it is conservatives who are presenting racism and homophobia. You want proof? Look at any one of the political talkshows that brings up those said issues and make a decision for yourself. That's what I did. Generally on those programs, it is stated who those people represent (whether it be an organization or political party). There's the proof right there, clear as day.

If you look at where most of the KKK is based, and you look at their voting pattern, they generally vote conservatively.

Plus, take this into account.





She is completely right on this one. As I said, look at voting patterns in places where the hate groups originated and where they hold a semblance of power. Oddly enough, where I live, there was a humongous KKK presence here for over 50 years (which is no longer active), and they still have their stain left here. This area was one of the only places in my state that voted for Bush (an outspoken conservative).

Plus, Idaho is another place where the KKK is known to have large numbers, especially in Coeur D'Alene. They voted right wing.

See a pattern?

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Finally someone produces some bit of proof to support their argument.

But, what Rosalie is saying is that bigots are only strong conservatives and doesn't believe that they can believe in anything except for classic conservative values (from what I can tell). But, that can't logically be true, there must be atleast one Liberal who hates Blacks or Gays.

Edit: Nevermind, I don't want to even get into this.

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This means you are a rational human being. Most conservatives are against gay marriage. The county I live in is highly conservative as shown on our state electoral map in the 2004 election and gay marriage was on the ballot. They shot it down...

Some notable conservatives who have said some hateful things and are involved in hate groups.

David Duke: Noted Conservative, Former KKK leader, Former Louisiana State Representative.

Fred Phelps: So far-right he called Bush a liberal (I'm not kidding).

Dick Cheney: Disapproves of gay marriage although his daughter is a lesbian.

Jeb Bush: Asked by a black woman what he would do for blacks if he became governor of Florida, Jeb Bush replied, "Probably nothing."

Barbara Bush: Her statements after the Hurricane Katrina disaster about those who are displaced...
"Almost everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to Houston. What I’m hearing which is sort of scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

No words like that would pass from a liberal's lips.
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Well, as I have stated before, a reason why a lot of conservatives tick me off is due to the fact that a lot of them are trying to integrate christian doctrine into law. The fight against abortion, the fight against gay marriage... and they don't take into consideration the feelings of Americans who don't share those religious sentiments...

Sure, liberals don't care about what some of those people think, but at the absolute root of the liberal arguement, liberals want all the same chances and freedoms for people regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, or any other factor. I'm not trying to step on any Christian toes, but Christianity is not the only religion. And a lot of the far right (notice I said far right...not the whole right) refuses to believe this. I personally just want to see the end of cultural hegemonics that present non-Christians as second class citizens. OK, before I have a bunch of people My friend's mom who worked at a fabric and craft wtore

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Congratulations on one of the most hateful, generalizing, and - dare I say it - bigoted threads of the year.

You have NO RIGHT to judge my character based on my political beliefs.

I'm not pointing out individuals. I'm stating generalizations based on what is where. When it comes to the individual, I don't care where you are from, I give everyone a fair chance regardless. I don't think anyone is a certain way until they prove they are.

And did I point anything at you? No, I didn't. Did I say all people who are right of center are like that? No, I didn't. Read the whole post before you come to conclusions.

Besides, I have to defend myself as well.

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Then would you please accept that rational beings may be against gay marriage?

This is the problem I have with many people:

They say: "I tolerate everyone's beliefs!"

They think: "I tolerate everyone's beliefs except conservatives, Christians, and especially not conservative Christians."

If you accept my right to disagree with you. Now... why are you against it?

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So basically, you're saying I am not a rational human being. Is that right?

I say what I think. I disagree with conservative christians, and I'm vocal about it.

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There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting their intelligence and/or character because of their beliefs. You are doing the latter.

YOU DO NOT KNOW ME. You probably haven't even read a lot of my posts here (which wouldn't help much because I never gave much background information.) Therefore, you have no right to make these claims.

I was being sarcastic, for one. A lot of homophobes and/or people against gay marriage arent. Not saying that you are, per se.

Now answer my question, what is your problem with gay marriage?



Where did I do that?

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For the last time, I didn't direct anything exactly at you.

Now answer my question, what problem do you have against gay marriage aside from religious reasons?

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It gives legal sanction to something sinful.

And religious reasons ARE the reasons, because this makes up my worldview and is how it should be. I would imagine that you'd want people to follow their religion fully, instead of being lukewarm and picking and choosing only the bits that fit into what they want.

You implied that since someone who doesn't disagree with gay marriage is a rational being, that someone who does disagree with it is not. I know this is a logical fallacy, but connotations often go further.