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| If Hell Was Real.... http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6337 |
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| Author: | Jello B. [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:12 am ] |
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Sblounskched! wrote: Some people have told me that hell, if you go there you work for satin moving rocks and building stuff for him.
Errr, that was like, third grade, so I..learned alot of things about hell when I was young.. Except how to spell "Satan." 
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| Author: | SEAN'D! [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:59 am ] |
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Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity? Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! |
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| Author: | Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:20 am ] |
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SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity?
Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! you see, thats why Dantes Inferno Seems the most Logical, but then again, As is everything else in the universe, Not Everything is Logical. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
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SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity?
Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! in the Jewish equivalent of hell, that's exactly how it goes -- your punishment has to fit your crimes. of course, there's a maximum possible sentence of twelve months. which seems pretty merciful to me. |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:28 pm ] |
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Keep in mind, hell is first and foremost a condition of separation from God's grace. And without that grace, those who end up there cannot escape their condition of being separated from God. That's why hell is eternal. |
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| Author: | sb_enail.com [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:05 am ] |
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SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity?
Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that in the eyes of God a sin is a sin is a sin. All sins are equal, no matter what the intent or motivation. I think I remember there being something in the Bible about that, if not, then I'm making this up as I go. Dante's version of hell makes sense, but then again, he wasn't a prophet, and as far as I know, he never received divine inspiration. The thing that scares me the most about hell is the fact that it is eternal: you're there forever. It never gets better, it always gets worse, and there is no escape. As Dante put it, abandon all hope ye who enter here, because there is no hope. In life, there's always hope, no matter how bad things get, but in hell, hope is gone. There is no chance of your situation ever improving. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:22 am ] |
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sb_enail.com wrote: SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity? Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that in the eyes of God a sin is a sin is a sin. Ok, then everyone is going to hell. Nobody's perfect. Everyone has sinned sometime or another. The logic doesn't make sense. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:27 am ] |
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Ju Ju Master wrote: sb_enail.com wrote: SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity? Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that in the eyes of God a sin is a sin is a sin. Ok, then everyone is going to hell. Nobody's perfect. Everyone has sinned sometime or another. The logic doesn't make sense. Yes, I realize how strange that sounds, I do worse things than someone else, ask God to forgive me, then go to heaven while the person who did a lot less wrong than me, doesn't. A lot about religion doesn't make sense, but, it is what it is. |
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| Author: | Jello B. [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:35 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Yes, I realize how strange that sounds, I do worse things than someone else, ask God to forgive me, then go to heaven while the person who did a lot less wrong than me, doesn't.
A lot about religion doesn't make sense, but, it is what it is. There's no way I'm making it to heaven if it exists. 
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:00 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Ju Ju Master wrote: sb_enail.com wrote: SEAN'D! wrote: Why would you have to go to Hell for eternity? Couldn't it, like, depend on how bad your sin was, and you just have a period of time in hell? Otherwise the adulterers would be getting the same punishments as the mass-murderers! I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that in the eyes of God a sin is a sin is a sin. Ok, then everyone is going to hell. Nobody's perfect. Everyone has sinned sometime or another. The logic doesn't make sense. Yes, I realize how strange that sounds, I do worse things than someone else, ask God to forgive me, then go to heaven while the person who did a lot less wrong than me, doesn't. A lot about religion doesn't make sense, but, it is what it is. Which is another reason why I don't beleive in god. You'd think he'd give us more signs if he really exists, oens that we can beleive. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:07 am ] |
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Ju Ju Master wrote: Which is another reason why I don't beleive in god.
You'd think he'd give us more signs if he really exists, oens that we can beleive. Fair enough. Of course, if the signs were all obvious, then there would be no need for faith, and no need to reward that faith.. Like I said, it doesn't make sense, but, for me anyway, it doesn't have to. I'm not going to try to convince you that you should change your mind, though. I mean, an actual debate (with the intention of changing someone's mind) is worthless and probably impossible. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:17 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Ju Ju Master wrote: Which is another reason why I don't beleive in god. You'd think he'd give us more signs if he really exists, oens that we can beleive. Fair enough. Of course, if the signs were all obvious, then there would be no need for faith, and no need to reward that faith.. Like I said, it doesn't make sense, but, for me anyway, it doesn't have to. I'm not going to try to convince you that you should change your mind, though. I mean, an actual debate (with the intention of changing someone's mind) is worthless and probably impossible. I agree. I'm not gonna change my mind, and I don't think you will change yours. I'm interested in other opinions though, since, as I said before, I don't know a whole lot about religion, just the basics, so I'd like to know a bit more. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:18 am ] |
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please don't confuse "Christianity" with "Religion." just because you might have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity's ideas of God and heaven and hell, it doesn't mean that all religions make no sense by definition. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:24 am ] |
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Cobalt wrote: please don't confuse "Christianity" with "Religion." just because you might have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity's ideas of God and heaven and hell, it doesn't mean that all religions make no sense by definition.
Hm, good point. I probably should've been more careful about my choice of words. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:28 am ] |
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Ju Ju Master wrote: Cobalt wrote: please don't confuse "Christianity" with "Religion." just because you might have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity's ideas of God and heaven and hell, it doesn't mean that all religions make no sense by definition. Hm, good point. I probably should've been more careful about my choice of words. Cobalt shoulda, too... Saying you have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity is the reason most christians have a negative opinion of athiests. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:16 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Saying you have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity is the reason most christians have a negative opinion of athiests.
first of all, i'm not an atheist. second, you were the one who said that Christianity "doesn't make sense, but it doesn't have to." that's known as turning off your brain, ceasing to think, ceasing to make sense of things and just believing them for no good reason. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:30 am ] |
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Cobalt wrote: StrongRad wrote: Saying you have to shut off your brain to accept Christianity is the reason most christians have a negative opinion of athiests. first of all, i'm not an atheist. second, you were the one who said that Christianity "doesn't make sense, but it doesn't have to." that's known as turning off your brain, ceasing to think, ceasing to make sense of things and just believing them for no good reason. I have plenty of "good reason". It's called faith. That's "good" enough for me... |
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| Author: | Capt. Ido Nos [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:37 am ] |
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With all of the talk of supports and logic aside, I think that a very real, although unspoken (and possibly unrealised) reason that many people claim that there is no such place as Hell is because if there was, then that would mean a lot of other things in life are different than what they want them to be, a fact that would ultimately mean a reevaluation of their lives and a restructuring of how they live their lives. That is, to say, they would most likely have to give up one or more things that they hold dear to them, such as habits, relationships, and pasttimes. People just don't want to do that. |
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| Author: | Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:00 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: A lot about religion doesn't make sense, but, it is what it is.
Try Explaining Cthulhuism to a Bible teacher, then ending up in a christian Retreat center. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:23 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: I have plenty of "good reason".
It's called faith. That's "good" enough for me... like i said, shutting off your brain. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:03 am ] |
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Cobalt wrote: StrongRad wrote: I have plenty of "good reason". It's called faith. That's "good" enough for me... like i said, shutting off your brain. Well, I've done pretty good for myself with a shutoff brain. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:39 am ] |
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StrongRad wrote: Well, I've done pretty good for myself with a shutoff brain. i don't doubt it. i'm just saying that there's no reason to believe anything that doesn't make sense. and people should not believe things without good reason. there are plenty of people who i'm sure have great lives and are very happy believing all kinds of things. that doesn't mean that there's any justification for those beliefs. |
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| Author: | StrongRad [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:23 pm ] |
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Cobalt wrote: StrongRad wrote: Well, I've done pretty good for myself with a shutoff brain. i don't doubt it. i'm just saying that there's no reason to believe anything that doesn't make sense. and people should not believe things without good reason. there are plenty of people who i'm sure have great lives and are very happy believing all kinds of things. that doesn't mean that there's any justification for those beliefs. You said you're not athiest, right? I'm just curious what your beliefs are and why you believe in them. What justifications do you have? |
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:01 pm ] |
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St. Paul wrote: 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength (1 Corinthians 1).
It's not "shutting off your brain," as you claim, Cobalt. Simple logic dictates that, since God is infinite, and man is finite, then there must be at least some things about his nature and actions that are beyond human understanding. We Christians have plenty of reason for believing as we do: we have the cross of Jesus Christ. And that is enough. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:12 pm ] |
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StrongRad wrote: You said you're not athiest, right?
I'm just curious what your beliefs are and why you believe in them. What justifications do you have? i'm Jewish. there are obviously many things that i don't understand, but every new thing that i learn about Judaism makes sense to me. it's not something i just accept on faith. you admitted that Christianity doesn't make sense to you, but you believe it anyway. i just don't think that's justified. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:15 pm ] |
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Didymus wrote: It's not "shutting off your brain," as you claim, Cobalt. Simple logic dictates that, since God is infinite, and man is finite, then there must be at least some things about his nature and actions that are beyond human understanding. We Christians have plenty of reason for believing as we do: we have the cross of Jesus Christ. And that is enough.
the cross is proof of nothing. i'm not saying that we should always be able to understand everything about God; of course not. but we shouldn't have to accept logical contradictions either. God does not have to be comprehensible, but a religion does, if it's supposed to be the means by which humans come to terms with the reality of the universe. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:35 pm ] |
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Hey Cobalt, use the edit button, the mods hate it when you double post. Cobalt wrote: the cross is proof of nothing. i'm not saying that we should always be able to understand everything about God; of course not. but we shouldn't have to accept logical contradictions either. God does not have to be comprehensible, but a religion does, if it's supposed to be the means by which humans come to terms with the reality of the universe. That's why I steer clear of organized religions. I feel they are too contradictory. I tried being a Catholic, but there were too many contradictions. I can't follow a religion that flip-flops like that. In Catholism, you are taught to be loving and kind, yet history shows that the Catholic Church has not been very loving or kind. The Church told us that Sin is bad, however has gone their fair share of sins(greed, anger and wrath seem to come up quite frequently). The Church told us to be forgiving. The City of Istanbul(formerly Constantinople) is still wait for an apology for the 3rd Crusade. Those are only a few reasons I have left the Catholic Church. I still do pray, I just do it my own way.
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| Author: | Didymus [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:04 pm ] |
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That's why I'm Lutheran, and not Roman Catholic. But I still think Cobalt is missing the point SR is trying to make. SR isn't saying that his faith is counter-rational, but rather trans-rational. As stated earlier, since God is infinite, there must be some things about his nature, and about the ways in which he acts, that seem irrational to us who do not know his full mind. For example, why did God choose that scoundrel Jacob (whose very name means Deceiver) to be the father of his race, instead of Esau? Why did he choose to save the Patriarchs by having Joseph enslaved in Egypt? Why did he choose a stuttering incompetent like Moses to be his people's liberator? And why did he choose Saul to be Israel's first king, knowing all the trouble he was going to cause later? And why did he allow Job to suffer all the torments he endured? And why did he accept Job's challenge to his justice as praise, but rejected the theological musings of his friends, who seemed to be praising him? |
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| Author: | GoodfellaSnoop [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:19 pm ] |
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If Hell was real, I imagine it would be similar to the Hell in Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, where they both experience their own personal hell with everything they hate. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:42 pm ] |
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Didymus wrote: That's why I'm Lutheran, and not Roman Catholic. Do you want me to tell you why I am not a Protestant either?
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