Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Funny how the endless "stupid little kid" insults stream from you without abatement, isn't it Rose? Funny how you didn't notice that I did say thanks for actually providing links in my reply earlier.

But you've pulled the same thing all over again and declare yourself victrious over it, and liken me to a "stupid little kid." Perhaps you should sit back and study how you constantly berate other people rather than focus on debating--study what you tell them, and see how your own insults apply to yourself.

Almost every ounce of trash talk you've used in this thread has been absolutely uncalled for, yet you keep doing it practically every post. Contrast this to, say, how Cobalt has taken this thread.

_________________

See? There's the respect issue we talked about earlier.

_________________

[joke]

Scotland, Ireland, same thing.

[/joke]

You're still ignoring the fact that I did actually reply to your post.

Besides, I don't care. I said I was sick of the bible thumpers and this is my reaction. I honestly couldn't care much of what you or anyone else thinks of that past it being an annoyance.

_________________
CLOCK

He DID acknowledge the fact that you replied to your post, or, at least it seemed like it in his earlier posts. The personal insults and ad hominem attacks you seem to base the meat of your posts on are not in his reply, so I can see how you could miss it..

BTW: Christian doesn't equal Bible Thumper, no matter how many times you say it..

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I'm trying to decide what is considered an insult to pagans. Obviously Rose feels that "Bible-thumper" ought to offend us, so to respond in kind, I wonder what an appropriate label for her would be?

Let's not start that; "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

_________________

Purely hypothetical, my friend.

Purely hypothetical.

You're right, although I could come up with a few; I won't share them here out of respect.

_________________

I don't think that's necessary at all. Not only is it bad form to stoop to Rosalie's level of respect for the opponent, but I think Rosalie already sees us as being there anyway.

Well, it would seem so at least ... given that the people she considers intolerant of pagans, immature, prideful, egoist, and forcing their beliefs on her would be me, IanTheGecko, Jiktas and whomever else doesn't stand by her soapbox of Christianity being stolen wholesale from pagans, and that Christians are not celebrating any sort of Christian concept on Christmas whatsoever.

Given her almost wild thrashing in response to this thread, I'd guess she finds the idea of multiple holidays on a single date to be anathemic, and therefore thinks that there can be only one ... so, to Rosalie, Christiams MUST celebrate the neopagan Yule, not what we concieve as being Christmas--to suggest otherwise, in any fashion, is to gravely insult her. :/ It's not JUST questioning the widely held belief that Christians stole the idea of Christmas from pagans--not even neopagans, who are largely a smattering of beliefs from various pagan cultures (I got clued by this given how she speaks of both Yule (Scandinavian) and Samhain (Celtic), the names neopagans commonly use for sabbats)--it's the idea of Christians celebrating a holiday on the same date as a pagan's, with their own reasons for doing so.



While I would agree, apparently we're already to that point. Rosalie's glued one of her eyes shut and blames it on what we've said in this thread, and is chasing us with very sharp knives screaming revenge all the way.

That said ... I really should just shut up, paint the toast, and wait to conitnue debating when someone has a counter or additional stuff to offer as far as what's already been discussed.

_________________

And that's why I dislike arguing with you. I may be "angry", but I never, ever put those kind of words in someone's mouth when they've said multiple times that's not what they're saying.

I'm just sick of this rubbish and trying to stand up for myself. I may not be pagan in the old sense but since my beliefs lay in the same pool as theirs and I uphold some of the same traditions, it makes it harder to take.

I wish you kids would listen for once. Nintendoid was pretty right in what he said - and it doesn't surprised me at all he found a gang of Christians who found people's behaviour hear ridiculous.

Like it or not, I've backed up what I've said. Most of the major traditions we associate with the celebration of "Christmas" predate Christianity. That's not really up for debate unless you can offer solid proof to the contrary to counter what I've already shown. The Christian Christmas is only one take on what has become, and debately always was in some ways, a secular celebration. It has it's roots in paganism, but nobody can claim any one "true reason" for the season as Iangecko does. The only reason I believe it was "stolen" is that certain people refuse to acknowledge where most of the tradition comes from.

Christmas, despite the name, is not a Christian holiday. It just got a name and a handful of traditions from Christianity. Christmas is something everyone should enjoy - and having it based on less specific pre-christian tradition makes it so it's non-dogmatic and comfortable for everyone to enjoy. Otherwise, you're forcing people like me to come up with whole new holidays when the people who shared much of my beliefs were the ones that came up with most of it in the first place. That isn't right.

I think I've made my point. It amazes me though, how much you want a villian, how much you want to look persecuted. Not healthy behaviour.

_________________
CLOCK

Missed that, Rosie. Thread over.

_________________

Ah, but still.. without respect for original purpose... what is that called? Theft.

Ah bible thumpers, very much like a slinky. Not really good for anything... but I can't help but smile when I shove them down the stairs!

_________________

... no, it does matter where they come from otherwise you are just stealing other people's traditions. Stop being a muppet and show some respect.

_________________
CLOCK

Show me some as well; I'm not calling anyone names.

_________________

The reason why she isn't showing you any respect is due to the fact you aren't acknoledging the fact that Christmas traditions were stolen.

_________________

I'm not the one stealing other people's traditions and passing them all off as my own. Name calling means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Culture-theft does.

That said, nearly EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts is one of these annoying little "I can never do anything wrong!" pieces. You always push for "Equal recognition!!!" when you're clrearly not ready to "Equally Recognise" a number of things.

_________________
CLOCK

So lets equally recognize the fact that Christmas doesn't have an original aspect about it and that it was all stolen, huh?!

Exactly, you cant... pride goeth before the fall!

_________________

Ah, strawman shows his face! Call Ian a culture theif, then, everyone will see how you're right.

Ian isn't stealing anyone's traditions.

I seriously doubt the pagans of old would swamp the malls the day after Thanksgiving. I seriously don't think pagans celebrate the birth of Christ by staging "live Nativity", scenes.

While, it IS hard to argue (well for me to argue because I don't know) that Pagans did give gifts as part of the celebration, it cannot be ignored that Christians give gifts in the traditions of the "wise men".

Just because two groups celebrate seperate occasions on the same day in the same way doesn't mean one stole it from the other, unless the Pagans invented gift giving, in which case I fully withdraw from the battle..

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

I will take the point that the origin of the celebration of Christmas is mixed; some traditions came from pagan cultures, and others came from Christian cultures. The pagan traditions, as Jitka pointed out, have been given a new meaning to coincide with Christianity.

_________________

Yet you said soon after:



*cough*

_________________

Sounds like another straw man... that means that the Christians took them, slowly eliminated the culture that took them and replaced it with their own... Stop trying to candy coat it. Blood does not make a good candy coat.

There was no interpretation... there was out and out theft and covering up of the original meaning.

_________________

That doesn't really sound strawman-ish, though... He's not accusing someone of something they didn't do in order to declare victory over that thing, and thus, that person..

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

And now we know what the various original meanings are.

_________________

Doesn't look like Christians did that good a job of eliminating the "original meanings" does it?

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Then acknowledge it and at least give cred where credit is due... Or just stop using our CENSOR'd and give it back.

_________________

Are you thick or something?

You accused me of saying this - and that Christians are not celebrating any sort of Christian concept on Christmas whatsoever.

Interesting how you didn't quote where I said the SAME THING I SAID EARLIER that negates your claim soon after replying -



You didn't bother quoting that though, did you?



Well you're the one who wants to deny them.



Yes they did, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia



I think the tradition of using spruce trees as Christmas trees may be Christian; but no doubt Spruce Trees were used by some people(the norse people probably celebrated some form of winter solstice), just not exclusively Spruce as it is nowadays. Personally, I quite like Spruce trees and am comfortable with the fact that the particular tree of choice may be Christian in origin.

_________________
CLOCK

sounds like he did, right there.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Did a great job at murdering people in the name of their God and stealing customs as they progressed though.

_________________

If we were as bad as you are trying to make us look, then, my response would be something like "Yep. Doesn't look like they killed enough, though..".

However, that's not the case, so, instead, I will say that "yes, they did, and that's shameful, but Pagans are not saints, themselves"

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.